Sitbones measured

[Susan]

First, I'm sorry if my writing reads a bit "weird" - I'm not so used to writing in English and therefore just kept "lurking" here until now

But I'm so confused right now with saddle width, that I have to ask:

If I get you right, bismarckgimpy, your LBD measured your sitbone width at 145mm. You then tried a Specialized Ariel 143mm (I guess that was the suggestion of the guy who fitted you).

I ordered a SI SLR Lady Gel Flow yesterday. The description says that it's 155mm wide. I measured my sitbones at home and got 135mm from center to center, so I thought that a 155 mm saddle would fit me. But the effective width of the SLR is much smaller - my sitbone-centers sit right in the same place as in the picture that OakLeaf posted from the other thread - I guess not where they should be (btw: I'm really sad about that because the SLR looks sooo nice and is quite hard, I would really love it if it wasn't too narrow )

I also saw a SQ-lab 611 active at my LBS today. The biggest one (15 cm) is wider than the SLR, and the centers of my sitbones are closer to the center of the saddle, but still the Saddle is smaller than my outside-to-outside measurement - so my Sitbones would "hang of" of it at the outsides.

The SQlab 610 which is also available in 16cm width looks really big, I don't know if it would be comfortable for riding technical trails (getting behind the saddle). And, while it's not the most important thing, I wouldn't mind a more "sportive" look for my MTB.

Are the Specialized measurements different? I mean, if a Specialized saddle is "15cm" wide in its description, does that mean it's actually wider and has 15cm space to actually sit on (which isn't the case with the SI saddles)?

I'm confused with this whole saddle-width and measurement thing because from what I read here, 13.5 cm sitbone width is not unusual for women, but still it seems that I can't find a good fitting MTB saddle so easily.

[bismarckgimpy]

Susan,

Re-read KnottedYet's post. It's the second one in this thread. Lots of good information. I read through it a couple of times for it to sink in.

It really didn't make sense for me to try the 143mm Specialized Ariel. Specialized makes the Body Geometry seats in 130/143/155 mm widths. The whole idea is that you get measured and since their are three widths available, one will fit you. Body Geometry is a great brand name, slogan or trademark (whatever you want to call it). In my opinion, the advertising campaign and product are misleading. Again in my opinion, the three widths really are extra small, small and medium. If you have a large or extra large sitbone width, well try something else.

I am full of opinions. I think saddle companies don't sell a lot of seats wider than 7" or 177mm because I think the public has the idea that they are for fat people, or for old ladies who want a pillow for a saddle. If you can't market a product, you ain't gonna sell it. My husband works in advertising. He agrees with that concept. Even Brooks lists the B68 as a Civic and Heavy Duty saddle. Though I'm guessing many people use it for touring.

I thought I saw in a thread, the breakdown of what percent of women have of what sitbone width. I am surprised and disappointed Terry doesn't have a wider saddle than 7".

Enough for now.

[Susan]

@bismarckgimpy: KnottedYets post makes total sense to me and is something to hold onto right now

The Problem is, there is a lot of information out there and the different saddle brands don't seem to agree at how to fit a saddle at all.

If I measure my 155 mm SLR (that I will send back today) with Knotted Yets Post in mind (and hoping I'm doing it right) I would say that it is designed for a woman with approximately 130mm - 140mm outside-to-outside width and 110mm - 120mm center-to-center. (And, just in case somebody wants to know, at the point where your sitbones hit, the cutout measures about 35mm.) With this measurements there still wouldn't be much wiggle room for shifting around and so on. That's small for a designated womans saddle, isn't it?

If you read the SQlabs homepage, they measure center-to-center and then add some centimeters depending on your position on the bike. For SQ-lab I would need a 155 oder 160 saddle - but then my sitbones would still stick out a bit as they measure 170mm from outside to outside.

Specialized would fit me on a 155 saddle.

But I think you are totally right Bismarckgimpy, wide saddles just don't have a positive Image that could be why they are not promoted and sold so much. It may be a similar problem as with Bra-sizes (where "everyone" fits a B or a C...) but thats a whole different story

@Muirenn: I will definitely try a Specialized womens saddle too. I have the one that came with my Stumpjumper, but as it is a mans-model (I don't know how you really call that? male model? He-bike? ) it is too small.

I think there is a SLR without a cutout, do you mean that one? Mine is the one with cutout (SLR lady gel flow) and it is definitely wider than the Diva-cutout, though not as wide as it looks on the pictures (on the widest part, the cutout measures 40mm, at the point where the centers of your sitbones hit it measures about 35mm).
The SLR is harder than the Diva and the shape is a bit different - the diva is rounder on the top, while the SLR is quite flat. The effective width is approximately the same.

I have sat on it. It is possible to sit on my sitbones in one spot, but it's really easy to slide off the sides. I can feel the edges of the saddle on my bones. When I don't actively watch my position, the saddle slides between my sitbones and I end up sitting on my soft tissue.
I also measured my sitbones with a piece of cardboard and then took a piece of clear plastic and marked the cardboard-imprints on it with an edding. Now I can take this "test-***" and put it on saddles to see where my sitbones would land. On the SI, my sitbbone-centers would land on the very edge, and I guess thats why I slip of so easily.

I didn't do a longer test ride however, because I think, as much as I like the looks of the saddle, it won't fit me anyways and it's quite expensive - so I'll send it back. I fear the muddy weather here wouldn't leave it in an "unused condition" if I took a ride.

[OakLeaf]

One thing that I remember Knott posting some months ago was that if you don't need a cut-out, don't get one, because it can cause more problems by concentrating pressure that would otherwise be more widely distributed.

I wonder if a corollary to that is that women who need cut-outs will always have more saddle problems than women who don't?

[KnottedYet]

Yeah, that was from the bike fit seminar I went to in SF like 3 years ago. It's the one good piece of info I got from the saddle people.

The Trek folks who were working on the prototype "Inform" saddles at the time gave a little presentation on their saddle design. The only other woman there and I were both going "wait a minute, that's not right!" As I recall, the physician there was also somewhat unconvinced.

Later I got a hold of the original research that lead to that design and it was shoddy and poorly done. It was a student project funded by Trek. (if you put a woman on a pressure-pad sensored rounded saddle that is narrow, OF COURSE you will "discover" that she is weightbearing on her pubic rami, she has no other option. So designing a saddle that is meant to wedge up into the arch of the rami is kinda confusing the whole cause/effect thing.) (what they should have done was asked a bunch of women to bring in their favorite saddles, sensored them, and measured both the women and their saddles and the pressure distribution on saddles they liked; rather than putting a bunch of volunteers on the exact same saddle and saying, oh looky, weightbearing on the rami and squishing soft tissue! It must be what all women want!")

The first women's versions of the saddles were roundly hated, and were promptly redesigned. From what little I've heard, the improved design is doing ok.

[Susan]

I was at my LBS today in the afternoon. It's true Muirenn, a 155 Specialized is much wider than the 155 SI SLR.

The specialized dealer would have fitted me onto a 143, but I'm quite convinced that would be too narrow and bought a Ruby 155. From the short ride I did before it started raining again I can't tell if it fits right. It feels definitely wider and I can feel my sitbones on it.

[bismarckgimpy]

Good luck Susan with your Ruby. Let us know how it works for you. I get your post about how different saddles can have the same measurements, but how those measurements can vary from company to company. I'll let you know how the B68 works.

[malkin]

... It must be what all women want!"

*sigh*
I could rant here, because you know it wasn't just this piece of saddle investigation that was conducted like that. It was pretty much everything. I hope things are better for our daughters and their daughters...