Dogs as trainers?

[tiva]

The statistics for injury and fatalities by dog bite do not look good for Pitt Bull breeds. .

Wrong--check the CDC again. I'm a scientist, and a cursory look at the CDC data actually suggests exactly the opposite. They are underrepresented in the population of dog bites (ie, nearly half the dogs in American shelters are now pit or pit mixes, and less than a third of dog bites are by pit/pit mixes.)

All breeds are unpredictable and capable of turning.

Unpredictable? Perhaps. Dogs are another species, and their behavior can be a mystery to people.

Capable of turning? I disagree. Any dog may bite if provoked enough, and different dogs have different stress thresholds. But few dogs will ever "turn", if by that you mean suddenly, without warning, cause harm to a person.

If you were riding or running down the country roads that I do and you saw a snarling square head dog bearing down on you, you would not pause to consider how responsible its owner might be. You would fear for your well being and assume that this animal intends to do you harm.
This is my reality all too often.

Of course, it's never fun to have any dog chase you. No responsible owner allows her dog to run free or chase bicycles or wildlife. That said, a pit bull (which are small dogs, by the way--a pit bull is about 40 to 50 lbs max and quite thin; few people can actually identify a pit bull) is much less likely to chase or attack people than dogs that were bred for those purposes.

But no biker should be chased by any dog--we all agree on that! It's dangerous for the biker, cars driving by, and the dog. I've never had the energy to call the cops on an owner who lets their dogs chase bikes, but if we all did this, the problem would probably be much, much reduced.

[OakLeaf]

I've said this before - I used to have a pit mix (departed now ). She was animal aggressive. We should have socialized her better, but didn't realize the problem until it was too late - she was friendly with puppies and with our other dogs that she grew up with. But the point is, that I could - and a couple of times, had to - put my hand in her mouth, with complete safety, to pull her off another dog. The other dogs (never another pit/mix) bit me, you bet. (These were off-leash dogs that approached her when she was at the end of our leash. Not something we could avoid except by never walking her.)

That's a classic pit personality (even though she was a real Heinz 57 and the PB genes were less than half her makeup), and it's what they were originally bred for - to be aggressive with bulls and other dogs, but 100% docile and controllable with humans.

I probably get chased more by herding breeds (Aussie cattle dogs in particular) than by any other dogs. A lab mix followed our club ride for a good two miles a couple of weeks ago.

And no dog should chase anything/anyone on the road, regardless of breed.

[MommyBird]

I had a whack of statistical data in a long post, but it's a pointless argument because you've already got your mind made up. Which is sad, but c'est la vie.

Badger, I am sure you love your dogs and take good care of them. But unfortunately you do not represent 100% of the PB owners out there. I can find a load of evidence that would not support your view as well. In fact, I did just that before writing my last post. There was even an article about a PB incident in my local paper today.
Like I said above...all dogs are unpredictable...we can never trust any breed 100% of the time. My son had stitches in his face from the neighbors Shih-Tzu.
What I do know is that stats tell me that I would more than likely suffer more damage or even death if I were to be caught by one of the PBs who regularly chase me than the spaniel who came up and licked my leg today.
It is the PB owners who discount the danger or do not care about the danger their dogs pose for others safety that worry me.
It is paramount for ALL dog owners to be mindful of the danger their beloved pets could inflict on a loved one or a stranger at any moment.
Do I believe PBs should be outlawed? Definitely NO.
But I do believe that when someone makes a personal choice that has a heightened potential to bring harm to others they bear an extra measure of responsibility to prevent such harm from occurring.
You probably fit this model but unfortunately there are a large number of people in my neck of the woods who do not.
Because of this, it is in my personal best interest to continue to not like square head dogs.

[Tri Girl]

I had a stealth dog come at me today. I didn't even know he was there until I looked in my rearview mirror. I yelled at him "get a job" all sarcastic like and he stopped running (thanks OakLeaf).
I think the insults work. Kinda like that old Will Ferrell skit on SNL where he's some doctor that says the best way to train your puppy is to be sarcastic and humiliate him. Ha!

[MommyBird]

[QUOTE=tiva;517944]Wrong--check the CDC again. I'm a scientist, and a cursory look at the CDC data actually suggests exactly the opposite. They are underrepresented in the population of dog bites (ie, nearly half the dogs in American shelters are now pit or pit mixes, and less than a third of dog bites are by pit/pit mixes.)


My cursory check of the CDC for fatalities tells quite a different story.

My question is if these are such desirable dogs, why are they so overrepresented in the shelter population?

Shelter numbers are not a good measure for the overall PB population.
The bite stats need to be compared to the non-shelter population to be meaningful.

I am not worried about the ones locked up.

I'm not a scientist. I just facilitate a debate club.

We all have different experiences and opinions. I feel confident in my research and do not feel compelled to change my position.

I have not asked that anyone outlaw a particular breed or euthanize any innocent animals. I just feel it is in my best interest to avoid exposure to PBs. And feel it is my right to not care for that type of dog.

You have every right to hate Jack Russells. I will not be offended.

One thing you should know. As a multiple JRT owner I always advise anyone with small children not to get one. There have been too many high profile bite cases. All four of mine have never bitten but better safe than sorry with the safety of others.

[PamNY]

You have every right to hate Jack Russells. I will not be offended.

Yikes. This sentence chills me to the bone.

Your dogs are not accessories.

[bmccasland]

Dogs aren't poorly trained, they're let down by their people.

I've been bitten by:

• a Pekinese - owned by the neighbor of my grandmother, dang dog bit me after I was invited in the house by her owner

• a German Shepherd - guard dog in the public show barns at a horse show where I was working as an EMT, the dog had already bitten my patient rather severely when she went to put up her tack. She knew the dog and the dog knew her, where I was a stranger to the dog.

Both acts were totally unprovoked on my part other than apparently occupying the wrong space.

As a kid I owned a French Poodle (from Paris no less , his arrival with us back to the States is another story), that bit a neighbor boy. Said child had it coming, even the Animal Control people said so. But the law was the law, and we had to keep our dog chained up inside his fenced yard for 2 weeks. The boy was jabbing our run-away dog with sticks and pine cones, while holding on to his collar. Adam had enough and bit him.

As for Pit Bulls in shelters.... They're popular among urbanites because bull dogs "look tough", and unfortunately the have been bred to fight. I think it's been said that ounce for ounce Chihuahuas are pretty vicious. If they were as big as Pits, shelters would probably be full of them too.