noseless saddles and the quest for comfort?

[Xrayted]

+1 on what Knot said above.

Oh, and +1 for Mimi. Knot, you do sit like a princess.

[WolfGirl]

Thank you for all of the input, folks...I admit, I'm a bit overwhelmed. Like Artifactos, I'm just miserable (and numb for days after!) even after the shortest of rides. I tried measuring myself but I can't seem to find the instructions (measure from the inside of the impression? Center? Outside?) and don't have what I'd call an accurate measurement. There are several bike shops here in town, but apparently they don't have the gizmos to do the measuring for me; I called around yesterday. Their claim was that you don't get an accurate representation of where your position would be on a saddle when riding? I guess...

I did make an appointment for a bike fitting, however; it's more expensive than some saddles but less expensive than many. I think my saddle (based on my highly inaccurate measurement) might be too narrow on the sit bones, therefore putting that awful pressure on the soft tissue. But I'm going to have the bike fitting first (next week; wish it were sooner!) and then continue the saddle hunt from there. I agree that the idea of noseless ones is pretty scary; I don't THINK I use the nose much, but it's not like I'm the most graceful rider to begin with. I'm not a racer, but I like to go fast and I like to use the bike in place of the car (and due to parking, often HAVE to). And like I said, my son is a bit of a bike nut too; I need to be able to whip off 20 miles in a day for days in a row without feeling it after. Which I wouldn't feel at ALL were it not for this saddle thing!

Anyway...thank you for the suggestions...and keep them coming! I'll keep you posted on the fitting results. I'm glad I found this forum!

[KnottedYet]

First off: Wolfgirl - "numb for days" is a bad bad sign! Usually that's compression of the peroneal nerve where it runs between the sit bones. Trust me, you do not want damage to that nerve! If I may suggest a wide (like 200+mm), flat-topped, minimally padded or unpadded, "T" shaped saddle for a substitute over the one currently on your bike, at least until after your bike fit? Ask around, someone you know might have something floating around their garage they might let you borrow.

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showt...ghlight=saddle This might be a good place to start, but there is a better thread which I can't find right now. The gizmo at the bike shop is great for measuring center-to-center. Someone posted fabulous instructions for making your own gizmo with saran wrap and play-doh.

[rubywagon]

You can also measure your sit bones with a two gallon ziploc and some regular flour, if you don't have play doh handy.

[KnottedYet]

The hard chair test is actually not a very accurate test for me. My butt and thighs provide enough padding that I can't find any angle on a hard chair that hurts the same way a saddle does. Weird, huh?

At least you knew the problem from equestrian saddles. That kind of knowlege is worth its weight in gold!

I've had very few people say the chair test (I used to use a concrete bench right outside our door, that worked GREAT) replicated the sensation precisely, but they could feel it lurking in the back ground and they felt definitely less comfortable elbows-on-knees compared to sitting upright. That's the only test (other than trying various saddles) I know of.

I collect no-cost saddle tests, and if anyone has another cut-out vs. solid test, please tell me!

[WolfGirl]

Knotted, thanks for the tips; I checked out that thread (among others).

When I say numb, I mean more on the _outside_ of my lady bits than the inside (with my newer seat (Planet Bike ARS); the numbness was all over with the stock seat). As for the seat until the fitting, I'm staying off the bike for the most part until then. I miss it!

I'll try to hunt up the play-doh test thread, thanks!

[KnottedYet]

A little light reading:

http://www.urosource.com/fileadmin/u...3804005627.pdf

http://pudendal.info/node/pdf/intrac...renialpain.pdf

The vast majority of studies about perineal and pudendal nerve compression and entrapment are about men... cuz men really worry when their pee-pees don't work. But the general idea is the same.

If you've got the time, do some searches on scholar.google.com You can find some pretty neat stuff.

(and yes, numbness on the outside is what happens when the sensory nerve gets compressed on the inside on its way out, just like your hand gets numb when you sleep on your shoulder. numbness that lasts for days means the nerve running to that area was compressed so horribly that it took days for it to rebound and recover)

[Eden]

In any case the Adamo is *not* really a noseless saddle - like the spider one that other gal has been pushing or the "moon" saddle. It has a nose that will take a push from your thigh even if it is very widely split. I really do think a truly noseless saddle would be a safety hazard for anything but the most casual of riding.

[WolfGirl]

hey ladies,

Well, I had my fitting done, at last! The bike appeared to be an okay fit when I went in there, but the guy did end up putting on a longer stem, and I got a new saddle: a Brooks B68. We tried a lot of other saddles, and did try a Brooks with springs, but the B68 felt the best of anything, with least pressure on the soft tissues (especially when nose-up a little!). Extending the stem let _me_ extend a little: I have a longish torso and shortish legs, so that was helpful.

I'm a little wary spending so much money on a saddle when I don't know if it will work...the proof will be when I start riding for real. (I couldn't test-ride out of stationary, as it's dumping down rain today.) He said he'd give me a week on the Brooks to see how it goes, and then I could return it if it's in decent shape. I know some places online have a better return policy (but even on Brooks?) but this was a) here and b) he got it set up just right. Hopefully it'll be an investment...and if it doesn't pan out, my partner just might be the recipient of a lovely new seat! Wish me luck...

[KnottedYet]

Wallingford Bicycle Parts www.wallbike.com has a 6 month return policy on all Brooks saddles.

Bill Laine (the owner and core staff) is a wealth of saddle knowlege, will answer emails and talk with you for a good long time on the phone.

[blackhillsbiker]

I have a B-67 on my commuter and LOVE it! You do have to get past the first week when your sit bones are a bit sore, but no perineal pain (for me) at all. It has spoiled me for other saddles. You'll be riding along and all of a sudden realize that you don't notice your bum at all, and haven't in awhile, and that'll be the end of it. I'm hoping it works out as well for you as it has for me!

Deb

[KnottedYet]

I have a B-67 on my commuter and LOVE it! You do have to get past the first week when your sit bones are a bit sore, but no perineal pain (for me) at all. It has spoiled me for other saddles. You'll be riding along and all of a sudden realize that you don't notice your bum at all, and haven't in awhile, and that'll be the end of it. I'm hoping it works out as well for you as it has for me!

Deb

That has been my experience with the B67 and B68 saddles on my bikes. Minus the sit-bone soreness. I put them on any bike I ride.

[WolfGirl]

Well, I tested the B-68 on two short rides yesterday (just under 5 miles each way) and so far, I'm cautiously hopeful? I can feel mild pain in my sitbones, and I felt a little lingering pressure on the lady bits, but nothing like before. I'm concerned that it would be a lot MORE feeling after a longer or more strenuous ride, but since I wasn't wearing bike shorts I'm hoping that that would make it all the much better. Am I right to assume that one would feel SOME pressure or soreness after riding? Meaning, I'm not going to find the Perfect Seat where you walk away not still feeling the saddle? (Oh, how I wish...)

[KnottedYet]

Well, I tested the B-68 on two short rides yesterday (just under 5 miles each way) and so far, I'm cautiously hopeful? I can feel mild pain in my sitbones, and I felt a little lingering pressure on the lady bits, but nothing like before. I'm concerned that it would be a lot MORE feeling after a longer or more strenuous ride, but since I wasn't wearing bike shorts I'm hoping that that would make it all the much better. Am I right to assume that one would feel SOME pressure or soreness after riding? Meaning, I'm not going to find the Perfect Seat where you walk away not still feeling the saddle? (Oh, how I wish...)

Remember to level the NOSE of a Brooks saddle, not the entire length of the saddle. The back of the saddle (cantle plate) should be slightly higher than the rest of the saddle.

I walk away from my bikes "not still feeling the saddle." I had saddle pain in the past so bad that I even tried one of those horrible two-pad-no-nose saddles. Turns out my sit bones are wider than most *entire* saddles, and once I finally got my measurements and bought a saddle that actually fit, the whole world changed. Brooks fit even better after they have been ridden, because they gradually form themselves to your butt.

[WolfGirl]

Remember to level the NOSE of a Brooks saddle, not the entire length of the saddle. The back of the saddle (cantle plate) should be slightly higher than the rest of the saddle.

Hm, okay...I'm not sure he did that or not. My partner got a flat last night on our ride, so I'm going to take his bike in today to a (different) repair place we like. I'll ask them about the Brooks leveling when I do.

Brooks fit even better after they have been ridden, because they gradually form themselves to your butt.

So I hear. I hope that's the case for me? :-/