noseless saddles and the quest for comfort?

[KnottedYet]

I bought a noseless one.

It nearly killed me.

Perhaps you should measure your sit bones, and try a saddle or two that fit your sit bones before you try another noseless?

A regular saddle that actually FITS YOU should be no more uncomfortable than sitting on a hard wooden chair. (if sitting on a wooden chair causes you numbness and soft tissue problems, then you want to be looking for a saddle that both fits your sit bones - 1 or 2 cm wider than your outside measurement, and with saddle cheeks that match your center-to-center measurement - AND that has a cut out.)

A saddle that fits you will have you weightbearing on your sit bones, with no weightbearing on the soft tissue. If someone is weightbearing on soft tissue, they are perching on a saddle that is too narrow.

[artifactos]

A regular saddle that actually FITS YOU should be no more uncomfortable than sitting on a hard wooden chair. (if sitting on a wooden chair causes you numbness and soft tissue problems, then you want to be looking for a saddle that both fits your sit bones - 1 or 2 cm wider than your outside measurement, and with saddle cheeks that match your center-to-center measurement - AND that has a cut out.)

A saddle that fits you will have you weightbearing on your sit bones, with no weightbearing on the soft tissue. If someone is weightbearing on soft tissue, they are perching on a saddle that is too narrow.

My problem with a nosed saddle (personally) stems from the way I am built. I cannot maintain a road position with a nosed saddle without major pain in my soft tissue, stemming from the way my pelvis is built and how my weight gets distributed on a nosed saddle (and yes, I tried many nosed saddles in various widths/shapes, adjusted to various angles, etc etc.. I used to adjust my saddle every 5 miles on longer rides to see if I could eliminate the soft tissue pain. I rode with soft tissue pain for months, including tearing, bleeding, and missing skin. For me, it stems from the tilt of my pelvis in the road position (I experience similar problems when riding at a sitting trot on a horse in a forward hunt-seat position for extended periods of time, too.. part of why I switched to dressage), because I don't experience the same problems with a nosed saddle on my mountain bike that I ride in a much more upright position.

While, yes, it is possible that I could find a nosed saddle that eventually would work for me.. eliminating the nose (or, in my case, going to what looks more like a split nose) immediately eliminated the soft tissue problems. I would much rather lose a tiny bit of maneuverability by having a noseless saddle than experiment for another 6 months and come up still mostly-uncomfortable on a nosed saddle. The fact that I can now ride 50 miles and be fine (other than tired legs and tired sitbones from being in the saddle for hours) rather than riding 15 miles and crying because my labia have been torn and I am miserable and want to go home is enough for me to stick with my noseless saddle and recommend at least TRYING them to someone with similar soft tissue issues.

If you're going to experiment with nosed saddles of different shapes, sizes, and adjustments.. why not add a noseless saddle or two to your experiments and see if they work? It's really all trial and error, isn't it?

[KnottedYet]

No-where did I say someone shouldn't use a noseless saddle.

She already tried one, and hated it.

I suggest she measure herself and try a nosed saddle that fits before giving up on nosed saddles entirely and trying yet another noseless saddle.

You are clearly the build that needs a split nose or cut-out. (remember my comment about sitting on a hard chair? There you are!) They have a purpose, which is why there are so many varieties out there. I've recommended your split nose saddle to several people.

Edit to Add:

Remember there are three basic things to know before shopping for saddles-
1. Sit bone measurements (outside and center)
2. Cut-out vs. Solid
3. Pear contour vs. "T" contour

There are a bazillion threads giving detailed instructions of various techniques to use to get these three pieces of info. Trying saddles without knowing these is kind of like trying on shoes randomly; you might get lucky, and you might end up spending a lot of money and getting frustrated.

[artifactos]

You are clearly the build that needs a split nose or cut-out. (remember my comment about sitting on a hard chair? There you are!) They have a purpose, which is why there are so many varieties out there. I've recommended your split nose saddle to several people.

The hard chair test is actually not a very accurate test for me. My butt and thighs provide enough padding that I can't find any angle on a hard chair that hurts the same way a saddle does. Weird, huh?

[Xrayted]

+1 on what Knot said above.

Oh, and +1 for Mimi. Knot, you do sit like a princess.

[WolfGirl]

Thank you for all of the input, folks...I admit, I'm a bit overwhelmed. Like Artifactos, I'm just miserable (and numb for days after!) even after the shortest of rides. I tried measuring myself but I can't seem to find the instructions (measure from the inside of the impression? Center? Outside?) and don't have what I'd call an accurate measurement. There are several bike shops here in town, but apparently they don't have the gizmos to do the measuring for me; I called around yesterday. Their claim was that you don't get an accurate representation of where your position would be on a saddle when riding? I guess...

I did make an appointment for a bike fitting, however; it's more expensive than some saddles but less expensive than many. I think my saddle (based on my highly inaccurate measurement) might be too narrow on the sit bones, therefore putting that awful pressure on the soft tissue. But I'm going to have the bike fitting first (next week; wish it were sooner!) and then continue the saddle hunt from there. I agree that the idea of noseless ones is pretty scary; I don't THINK I use the nose much, but it's not like I'm the most graceful rider to begin with. I'm not a racer, but I like to go fast and I like to use the bike in place of the car (and due to parking, often HAVE to). And like I said, my son is a bit of a bike nut too; I need to be able to whip off 20 miles in a day for days in a row without feeling it after. Which I wouldn't feel at ALL were it not for this saddle thing!

Anyway...thank you for the suggestions...and keep them coming! I'll keep you posted on the fitting results. I'm glad I found this forum!

[KnottedYet]

First off: Wolfgirl - "numb for days" is a bad bad sign! Usually that's compression of the peroneal nerve where it runs between the sit bones. Trust me, you do not want damage to that nerve! If I may suggest a wide (like 200+mm), flat-topped, minimally padded or unpadded, "T" shaped saddle for a substitute over the one currently on your bike, at least until after your bike fit? Ask around, someone you know might have something floating around their garage they might let you borrow.

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showt...ghlight=saddle This might be a good place to start, but there is a better thread which I can't find right now. The gizmo at the bike shop is great for measuring center-to-center. Someone posted fabulous instructions for making your own gizmo with saran wrap and play-doh.

[rubywagon]

You can also measure your sit bones with a two gallon ziploc and some regular flour, if you don't have play doh handy.

[KnottedYet]

The hard chair test is actually not a very accurate test for me. My butt and thighs provide enough padding that I can't find any angle on a hard chair that hurts the same way a saddle does. Weird, huh?

At least you knew the problem from equestrian saddles. That kind of knowlege is worth its weight in gold!

I've had very few people say the chair test (I used to use a concrete bench right outside our door, that worked GREAT) replicated the sensation precisely, but they could feel it lurking in the back ground and they felt definitely less comfortable elbows-on-knees compared to sitting upright. That's the only test (other than trying various saddles) I know of.

I collect no-cost saddle tests, and if anyone has another cut-out vs. solid test, please tell me!

[WolfGirl]

Knotted, thanks for the tips; I checked out that thread (among others).

When I say numb, I mean more on the _outside_ of my lady bits than the inside (with my newer seat (Planet Bike ARS); the numbness was all over with the stock seat). As for the seat until the fitting, I'm staying off the bike for the most part until then. I miss it!

I'll try to hunt up the play-doh test thread, thanks!

[KnottedYet]

A little light reading:

http://www.urosource.com/fileadmin/u...3804005627.pdf

http://pudendal.info/node/pdf/intrac...renialpain.pdf

The vast majority of studies about perineal and pudendal nerve compression and entrapment are about men... cuz men really worry when their pee-pees don't work. But the general idea is the same.

If you've got the time, do some searches on scholar.google.com You can find some pretty neat stuff.

(and yes, numbness on the outside is what happens when the sensory nerve gets compressed on the inside on its way out, just like your hand gets numb when you sleep on your shoulder. numbness that lasts for days means the nerve running to that area was compressed so horribly that it took days for it to rebound and recover)

[Eden]

In any case the Adamo is *not* really a noseless saddle - like the spider one that other gal has been pushing or the "moon" saddle. It has a nose that will take a push from your thigh even if it is very widely split. I really do think a truly noseless saddle would be a safety hazard for anything but the most casual of riding.

[WolfGirl]

hey ladies,

Well, I had my fitting done, at last! The bike appeared to be an okay fit when I went in there, but the guy did end up putting on a longer stem, and I got a new saddle: a Brooks B68. We tried a lot of other saddles, and did try a Brooks with springs, but the B68 felt the best of anything, with least pressure on the soft tissues (especially when nose-up a little!). Extending the stem let _me_ extend a little: I have a longish torso and shortish legs, so that was helpful.

I'm a little wary spending so much money on a saddle when I don't know if it will work...the proof will be when I start riding for real. (I couldn't test-ride out of stationary, as it's dumping down rain today.) He said he'd give me a week on the Brooks to see how it goes, and then I could return it if it's in decent shape. I know some places online have a better return policy (but even on Brooks?) but this was a) here and b) he got it set up just right. Hopefully it'll be an investment...and if it doesn't pan out, my partner just might be the recipient of a lovely new seat! Wish me luck...

[KnottedYet]

Wallingford Bicycle Parts www.wallbike.com has a 6 month return policy on all Brooks saddles.

Bill Laine (the owner and core staff) is a wealth of saddle knowlege, will answer emails and talk with you for a good long time on the phone.

[nscrbug]

The hard chair test is actually not a very accurate test for me. My butt and thighs provide enough padding that I can't find any angle on a hard chair that hurts the same way a saddle does. Weird, huh?

I have the same exact problem. I cannot replicate the pain, while sitting on a chair...but put a saddle underneath me, and it's a totally different story.