Barefoot Running

[KnottedYet]

The Mizunos and PIs are far more built up than what I remember calling "flats" from my track days.

Is it possible that over the last 30 years standard shoe soles have become so overthick and overcushioned that even the Mizuno and PI you two mentioned are now considered "flats"?

So, it seems running in standard shoes is now more like running in high heels than I realized.

Oh, why didn't I go into biomechanical engineering? (then *I* could have been the one making turkeys run on little treadmills... I could've given them little iPods, too!) (and I could have made a gazillion dollars designing reasonable shoes)

[Becky]

Is it possible that over the last 30 years standard shoe soles have become so overthick and overcushioned that even the Mizuno and PI you two mentioned are now considered "flats"?

Yes, as far as I can tell from scanning the shelves at my LRS. I keep watching for something even flatter but, for now, these will have to do.

[KnottedYet]

http://www.finishline.com/store/cata...LAID=341775370

This is more what I remember training flats (as opposed to "spikes") to be like. Asics Tigers.
When Nikes came on the scene, we went apesh*t over the first pair we saw. They were sooooo different with those wedged heels. My asst coach had the first pair I ever saw, and he called them "nyks". So we all called them that for quite a while. I'm pretty sure the wedge heel on my first pair of Nikes was lower than the Mizuno and PI heels. It was maybe double the thickness of the Tiger.

[GLC1968]

Is it possible that over the last 30 years standard shoe soles have become so overthick and overcushioned that even the Mizuno and PI you two mentioned are now considered "flats"?

It certainly sounds like it from the information referenced in 'Born to Run'. Have you read that yet, Knott? Interesting stuff (and a great story).


Another thing to consider going from VFF's to barefoot is the foot sole toughness. Many people get blisters on the bottoms of their toes because they don't realize they are pushing off with them (and in a VFF, it doesn't matter). Try that barefoot and you'll trash your skin! My limitation with running barefoot now is the soles of my feet, not my calves or ankles or muscles at all. I don't run in my VFF's at all (though maybe I should).

[KnottedYet]

I haven't read it. I'm pretty focussed in on the research papers, not so much on the semi-fictionalized stuff. Eventually I'd like to read it, if only because it's the first exposure so many people (who didn't run track in school, or who didn't run before the latest fad in shoes) have had to the concept of barefoot running.

When I get through the huge backlog of research stuff...
(I'm getting quite a kick out of all the papers from 1905-1910 about running barefoot. Truly there is nothing new under the sun!)

[OakLeaf]

Okay, okay, I've drifted this thread far enough.

As far as shoes: if I plan to continue to run shod, which I will for the time being, the message is "patience, grasshopper." As much as this bunion freaks me out, it's mainly because I have a name for it now. It's been building for years, since I was wearing much smaller shoes than the ones I have now, and it is not going to turn in to the Bunion that Ate New York between now and May 16 if I put another 300-400 miles on the shoes I have now.

But back to barefoot.

I get this feeling like there's a pebble between my first and second toes. It gets to be pretty uncomfortable. Anyone else get that? Any idea whether that's form, structure or conditioning?

[KnottedYet]

I get this feeling like there's a pebble between my first and second toes. It gets to be pretty uncomfortable. Anyone else get that? Any idea whether that's form, structure or conditioning?

Is it in the ball of your foot?

Google "dropped metatarsal head". Didn't I write up an exercise program somewhere on TE for that? (in fact, wasn't it for *you*?)

Anyway, folks feel the "pebble" on hard surfaces and when the muscles that are supporting the met arch fatigue and the met head starts dropping.

[Blueberry]

Is it in the ball of your foot?

Google "dropped metatarsal head". Didn't I write up an exercise program somewhere on TE for that? (in fact, wasn't it for *you*?)

Anyway, folks feel the "pebble" on hard surfaces and when the muscles that are supporting the met arch fatigue and the met head starts dropping.

Here's the linkey: http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showp...2&postcount=40

I saved it last time you posted it. This is *most definitely* my problem. Quick question: I assume the thumbs are towards the outside of the foot on the top during the stretch?

[KnottedYet]

Quick question: I assume the thumbs are towards the outside of the foot on the top during the stretch?

Yup. The thumbs end up kinda on to the outsides on top and the fingertips are kinda in the middle on the bottom. Almost like you are pushing upward on the dropped met head with your fingertips while pushing downward on the sides of the foot with your thumbs.

I always think of cleaning Dungeness crab when I do this... y'know after you've taken the top shell off and you are breaking the crab into left and right halves. Mmmmmm, crab.....

[OakLeaf]

Yep, been doing the exercises. Thanks. Also strengthening in yoga and short barefoot runs and walks. If conditioning is what it is, then I'll continue building slowly. Just wasn't sure.

(I confess, as I did confess before, that I slacked off the exercises when it was just too cold to take my socks off even for a few minutes, except for in the shower, literally. Yep, even in Florida, my toes are on the edge of blue most of December, January and February. But I'd already gotten back to the exercises now that it's warmed up a little.)

I wouldn't necessarily characterize it as the ball of my foot; it's more toward the toes. But maybe it just feels that way because my second met head is so far forward from the first. That sounds right, anyway.

[GLC1968]

I haven't read it. I'm pretty focussed in on the research papers, not so much on the semi-fictionalized stuff. Eventually I'd like to read it, if only because it's the first exposure so many people (who didn't run track in school, or who didn't run before the latest fad in shoes) have had to the concept of barefoot running.

When I get through the huge backlog of research stuff...
(I'm getting quite a kick out of all the papers from 1905-1910 about running barefoot. Truly there is nothing new under the sun!)

Actually, I don't think there is anything fictional about it. The stories are true. Whether or not all the research is solid is not something I can speak to, of course.

And his historial annecdotes about Nike are fun to read particularly living in Nike-central here.

The whole book is fun once you get the hang of the authors style (which is a bit disjointed).