How much does the bike really matter?

[dianne_1234]

Assuming everything's clean, lubed, well adjusted and fits okay, upgrading your bike's frame or Shimano components won't make much difference in speed. Upgrading your saddle might, if you can reduce soft tissue pain.

For component upgrades, I've found measurements help; I don't have to judge what might be small differences by feel. Fortunately I don't have to measure everything myself, either - others have measured for me!

Here's an old article about how to go faster on a racing bike:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/aero/formulas.htm
There's no expiration date on physics so it's still helpful even though it's old.

The author points out that most of the resistance at racing speeds comes from aerodynamic drag. There's a table showing time savings from various upgrades. Here's where the article's age matters - you can't get most of those parts any more. But what may be pertinent to your situation is that there are no component class upgrades (Sora to 105) listed!

For faster tires, consider rolling resistance. For racing I use tires with low rolling resistance. I choose them by looking at this list, starting at the top:
http://www.biketechreview.com/tires_...sting_rev8.pdf
Of course, tempered with other info, like does my sponsor's shop sell them, flat resistance, price, etc.

In the end, basics for racing sucess are (1) Power (your legs!), (2) Racing smarts (your head!), (17) a basic functional bike in good condition. I've arbitrarily made the bike number 17 to make the point that there are other more important things, like good rest, recovery, motivation, teammates, etc.

Have a great time!

[Biciclista]

You might go to Sammamish bike they have race wheels you could try out. There are great fit people at several of our favorite Seattle bike shops too. IT would take one of them 5 minutes to help you decide about whether you need a new bike or not. If it's just your legs that grew, raise your seat and buy yourself some fab wheels. Good luck!

[kiwibug]

I have a specialized dolce elite and I LOVE it. I kind of stumbled into buying it, I didn't do nearly enough research and I probably didn't need such a light bike - I'm not nearly fast enough to do it justice, so I guess I fit into that category of people with a nice bike who can't ride Sometimes I wonder whether a Surly long haul trucker would have suited me better, and I figure that I can always add one to my stable later! My dolce feels like.. a second skin? I don't know how to explain it.

My advice to you would be to go to your LBS and try some bikes out. See how they feel. See how you feel. And if you have a nice bike, and then you realize that you aren't as fast even with a light bike - that's honestly the worst that can happen - And it's not even a huge deal. It sounds to me like you're a younger rider (I myself am still in university), and I figure we have years of cycling left, years to build up fitness. I'm okay with being able to grow into my bike a bit - I just started getting serious about cycling last year, so I have some time to get as fast as I want to be, and that's okay too.

Edit: I'd just like to add that I know nothing about racing but I support you in your quest for a new bike!

[zatar]

Thanks again so much for all of the replies.

I talked to my teammates a lot today and one offered to sell me her extra Ultegra (!) components very inexpensively. We didn't talk exact numbers yet, but I'm expecting it will be a huge upgrade to go from all Sora components to Ultegra.

I also am planning on going to a physical therapist for another bike fit. I have a history of weird orthopedic injuries and think I could really benefit from a PT's view of my biomechanics on the bike. One of my teammates said that I sometimes bounce when pedaling, which is likely a fit issue too. I'm hoping the PT will also be able to suggest a different saddle that I can try.

So, in conclusion, I think I'm going to stick with my current frame, but upgrade different parts of the bike. My priorities are:
1) Wheels (will buy Neuvation wheels through the team)
2) Tires (bought a pair of the Vittoria Open Corsa Evo tires yesterday and love them already!)
3) Sora --> Ultegra
4) New saddle (possibly one with cut-out?)
5) Swap out adjustable stem for lighter one.

I'm excited! It's not a new bike, but am guessing it will feel like one, by the time I'm done

I think I am feeling better in general about my bike too because I was still able to be relatively competitive during the race today. I didn't win, or even place that well, but I was really happy with how I did. We had about 15+ women working together towards the end and I won the sprint from that group! I realized that I was still able to beat some people, even though I know at least some had nicer bikes. It was pretty awesome!

[WindingRoad]

If it were me (and it was at one point, I had a Giant OCR3 with a very similar set up) I would change those shifters asap. You are losing so much time monkeying around with those while you are racing. You can't shift them from the drops which I found to be a complete nuisance. Yes that stem weights a lot and since you've been professionally fitted there's no need for it.

I would honestly keep an ear out for another bike someone may be selling. You have a nice bike but it would also be good to have a rain bike. You may be surprised how easy it is to sink $1000 into the bike you have and I'm pretty sure you could pick up a used bike for about that too. Keep it in mind cuz then you have a backup bike which in racing I've found is a good thing to have. Unfortunately wrecks happen and bikes have to go to shops where you may not get them back for a week or so.

[Cataboo]

Yeah, shifters may not necessarily make you go faster - but higher end shifters are lighter, which does impact how much effort you have to do to get the bike moving. And they get rid of a lot of hassle factor.

Race or faster wheels are likely something that will help her a lot now, and she'll probably still need if she gets a new/used bike.

Checking the crank fit might help as well - maybe she needs longer/shorter cranks (could contribute to the leg pains), maybe stiffer or carbon cranks would help a bit.

[zatar]

Thanks again for the continued replies. Very helpful to hear all of the opinions from you guys!

I think switching out the components is a definite priority for me. I'm feeling really lucky right now because a teammate just offered to sell me her Ultegra-SL components for $200. So awesome. :grin I never imagined that I'd be able to afford a bike with Ultegra-level components at my age!

Next on the list is a bike fit from a PT with lots of cycling experience (former pro mtb racer, cat 1 cyclocross, etc.). One of my teammates had really positive things to say about her, so I'm very excited about this too! I've got lots of issues that I'm hoping to tackle with the bike fit including: her suggestions for a new saddle, crank length (currenly 170mm, but the ultegra ones are 172.5), achilles tendon pain, knee pain, and upper back pain. I'm sort of a mess at the moment!

And I think wheels will be the last upgrade for now. Might wait on swapping out the adjustable stem for a while...

[Cataboo]

$200 for ultegra sl level components is great I hope the fitter can fix all your issues.

[zatar]

Well, I've still been thinking about this thread a lot...

I raced again last weekend and was excited to finish in the top 10 (in my 2nd race ever!!). I was happy with how the race went and really excited about the rest of the season.

I had my appointment for the bike fit today and although she was very nice, I'm a little discouraged. I think she did as best as she could, but still, it's not a perfect fit. I found out the shop that did my first fit (a sponsor of the team) cut my carbon fork too short, so we couldn't really (safely) switch out stems. Also, because it was such an inexpensive bike, it's hard to justify pouring tons of money into it.

I just am feeling a little down, at the moment. In my previous sport, it was purely a matter of your body and mind. It didn't matter what kind of gear you had; everybody was equal. In this sport, it feels like so much of it can come down to money. I feel like people don't take me seriously because they see my bike and I hate that. I want them to judge me for how I ride, not for how expensive my bike looks.

I guess I just need to reevaluate. I am trying to race as much as I can right now and that takes a lot of money too (for lodging, food, gas, etc.). I'm wondering if I'd be better off racing less frequently and buying a better-fitting bike? I am hoping I'll be able to get through the season on my current bike, but it's not a very good fit anymore (most likely because I've grown a lot since getting it).

Maybe part of this disappointment is just realizing that cycling is not the perfect sport I thought it was. No sport is perfect, and I know that deep down, but cycling really felt like it was it. I still really love it, but I'm frustrated at how expensive I'm finding it can be.

[Jiffer]

If you are committed to riding and actually get a lot of use out of your bike, especially since you are racing, even ... I'd say splurge on the better bike. As far as I'm concerned it makes a big difference. Spend as much as you can reasonably afford. Consider buying used. You can find some pretty sweet deals used, as long as you know what you are looking for. Dh spent about $2,000 on ebay on a "barely" used MTB which would have cost $4,000 or $5,000 brand new. He called our LBS owner and asked if it was a good deal and the guy told him BUY IT!

My friend bought the previous year's Ruby Expert and saved some good money. It was brand new, but they needed to make room for the new one's coming in. In fact, right now might be a good time for you to look for last year's models. She bought hers in February a couple of years ago.

Another option is to upgrade your components a little at a time. Dh's first bike was a $700 used Cannondale. He changed out components little by little, adding DuraAce shifters and other high end components. After he upgraded all the components, he bought a new frame and had all the components switched to the new frame. Eventually when I was ready for a road bike (after riding tandem with him for a while), he bought a new upgraded bike for himself, we bought me a new frame and put all the components from his old bike on that frame. So my first bike was (is) pretty darn sweet. Since then, we have changed out various parts here and there to suit what I needed. (A compact double crank set instead of double, smaller handlebars so I can reach the brakes better and am more comfortable in the drops, new lighter wheels for climbing, etc.)

So, another option for you right now is to keep the bike you have and start changing up some of the components. Or upgrade your whole bike with what you can afford to spend right now, but maybe upgrade your components to even better one's a little at a time.

[zatar]

Thanks for the input, jiffer!

I did end up going to a bike shop today to look for lightly-used and/or older model road bikes. They didn't have much in my size, but there was a 2009 Kona Lisa RD that looked interesting. $900 for full ultegra! The frame material was similar to my current bike (aluminum with a carbon fork). Wheels looked a little nicer. AND, from the 5 seconds on the bike, the fit seemed about 10000x better. I've already shelled out about $300 for 2 bike fits now and this one felt better right off the bat

I figure with my current bike, I'll probably be spending $200 for ultegra components, $250 for new wheels, $100 for a shorter stem. So, I'd be investing about $550 into my current bike, if I wanted to bring it up to the level of the $900 bike I saw today. So, $450 difference right there, and if I am able to part with my current bike, they'll take it as a trade-in... Seems like it might be worth a few hundred to have a bike that fit me really well.

I just don't know if I want to stick with my current bike, go up a step, or go all the way to a full-carbon (or titanium, if I'm really dreaming) bike.

I think full-carbon is probably still too expensive for my 20 year-old budget right now. I already know that I want to focus on track cycling, so I would prefer to spend my money there. But, I still do enjoy the road races, and would like to have a bike that is "good enough" to where I could be competitive.

I also need to look up the geometry of the Kona bike I saw today. The one I tested was a 46cm and my current bike is a 49.5cm. I know they're measured differently, but I expected to be looking at 50cm or 51cm, since my main concern is outgrowing another frame!

Sorry for all of my rambling -- just trying to make the best decision here...

[zatar]

Thanks for the input, jiffer!

I did end up going to a bike shop today to look for lightly-used and/or older model road bikes. They didn't have much in my size, but there was a 2009 Kona Lisa RD that looked interesting. $900 for ultegra/105! The frame material was similar to my current bike (aluminum with a carbon fork). Wheels looked a little nicer. AND, from the 5 seconds on the bike, the fit seemed about 10000x better. I've already shelled out about $300 for 2 bike fits now and this one felt better right off the bat

I figure with my current bike, I'll probably be spending $200 for ultegra components, $250 for new wheels, $100 for a shorter stem. So, I'd be investing about $550 into my current bike, if I wanted to bring it up to the level of the $900 bike I saw today. So, $350 difference right there, and if I am able to part with my current bike, they'll take it as a trade-in... Seems like it might be worth a few hundred to have a bike that fit me really well.

I just don't know if I want to stick with my current bike, go up a step, or go all the way to a full-carbon (or titanium, if I'm really dreaming) bike.

I think full-carbon is probably still too expensive for my 20 year-old budget right now. I already know that I want to focus on track cycling, so I would prefer to spend my money there. But, I still do enjoy the road races, and would like to have a bike that is "good enough" to where I could be competitive.

I also need to look up the geometry of the Kona bike I saw today. The one I tested was a 46cm and my current bike is a 49.5cm. I know they're measured differently, but I expected to be looking at 50cm or 51cm, since my main concern is outgrowing another frame!

Sorry for all of my rambling -- just trying to make the best decision here...

[aicabsolut]

Here are my thoughts having been racing for a few years....

You don't need carbon. Getting a really nice aluminum frame like a Cannondale CAAD9 will probably be stiffer than low-end carbon, and cheaper. I really enjoy the feel of a nice carbon frame, but that is out of your price range. You don't need full carbon. Just get something that fits.

Since you're saving some on the frame (FYI low end carbon race bikes are often in the $2000 mark), go for some decent components. It doesn't have to be Dura Ace. However, with Shimano groups, there is a good bit of functionality improvement when you move up in the hierarchy as well as a reduction in weight. So, for example, my Dura Ace shifters are a dream compared to my old 105. The 105 was fine for me to start racing on, but they were kind of a hassle. The throw was far and difficult. I had many more dropped chains. I hated the brakes, though they have improved the brakes since I got that group. I really don't have to think about my shifting anymore, and that is a relief. It is easier to keep in tune.

You might consider moving to SRAM if you're going to upgrade most of the group anyway (SRAM is still Shimano compatible with chains, cassettes/wheels). SRAM Rival is pretty good bang for buck. It's heavier than the other SRAM road groups, but it is functionally the same.

A CAAD9 4 or 5 will be a great race machine for under $2k, and it or something comparable in another brand will be an improvement over the Dolce, Allez, or a low end carbon bike.

Finally, getting a new bike will mostly make you feel a bit better, hopefully give you a good fit, but you still need to train the engine, as others have said. There are some improvements that can help you in the long run, as you develop as a racer. A better quality bike can help reduce fatigue by giving you a smoother ride. Aero wheels might help you go a little harder a little longer because you can save some watts holding a certain speed. Aero wheels might help you descend faster. A stiff bike and stiff wheels will also make accelerations feel crisper and you might notice that they feel nice on climbs, but a fancy bike isn't going to launch you from a top 10 finish to a win all by itself.

These are pretty subtle differences that mostly have to do with rider comfort. I surely don't put out enough watts to flex many frames or cranksets, but there is something smooth and a little less "mushy" feeling about a high quality bike. So, I might be very slightly more efficient due to my bike, but it is mostly just enjoyable to ride. There are plenty of people on heavier, less "fancy" bikes than mine that kick my butt on a regular basis.

[zatar]

Wow, that is great input, aicabsolut!

I talked to a few teammates this weekend about getting a new bike and they were supportive as well. The weight (~24-25 pounds) isn't a huge concern to me because I'm able to stay with the pack on climbs and don't really think I'll ever be one of those super-fast hill climbers anyway. I agree that full-carbon is probably not necessary right now and an aluminum frame with carbon fiber fork would probably be just fine.

But fit and components are definitely more important to me now that I've got a few races under my belt. I think my top tube is just way too long on my current bike. I'm about 5'3" and have relatively long legs (31" inseam), but short arms (and torso). I'm afraid that finding a frame that fits my weirdly-proportioned body is going to be a huge challenge.

Components-wise, I will definitely look into SRAM. I didn't realize they were compatible with Shimano. If I do end up with Shimano, I'd like to go with full Ultegra, but may only be able to afford 105. I'm hoping even 105 will seem like a huge improvement, however, after racing on all Sora components now. I'm starting to really dislike getting out of the drops to shift.

I will also try to keep the focus on working to improve myself, rather than getting distracted by different bike choices. I didn't do as well as I had hoped at both races this weekend, and am really starting to wonder if my performances before were just because I was new.

Two weeks ago, I was able to attack close to the finish and they all just watched me go. I tried it again yesterday and they chased me down. I think I need to train quite a bit harder now and also try some new tactics, so that I'm stronger and not as predictable.

[Jiffer]

You don't need carbon. Getting a really nice aluminum frame like a Cannondale CAAD9 will probably be stiffer than low-end carbon, and cheaper.

I have a CAAD9 frame. If you can't get carbon (a Cannondale Super Six, of which, I of course am completely lusting after!) ... the CAAD9 is an excellent choice. It's one of the lightest, if not THE lightest aluminum frame. It has been raced on in the Tour de France. My CAAD9 is about the same weight, if not lighter, than a Specialized Ruby frame, which is carbon. (There are many categories of carbon.) My CAAD9 with the components I have make it 16.9 lbs. If you buy a CAAD9 stock at a store, it will have different components and will be heavier, but probably significantly lighter than your current bike, which much better components than you currently have.

I can't say if a CAAD9 would fit you well. Remember that handlebars make a big difference. I think I mentioned in my post that my original handlebars were dh's. I finally realized I needed "compact" handlebars, even though I'm the same height as my husband. They are basically handlebars that are sized for women or smaller framed men. My husband actually wants my handlebars! It made such a difference for me in getting in the drops and controlling the bike, shifting and braking. The right bike fitter should be able to help you know what size frame you need, stem, handlebars, etc. Sounds like maybe you haven't had luck finding the right person.

Anyway, those are my 2 cents.