Plastic BPA drinking glasses for grown ups...

[Flybye]

We are in the market for more drinking glasses. We like our plastic ones primarily because we take them outside in the summer. I am looking for 16+ ounce size plastic cups - and am having a hard time finding BPA free ones. Any suggestions either on-line or in stores would be helpful.

[TsPoet]

As a scientist who works with BPA.... Oh never mind, you don't want to hear the truth. Go ahead, find a cup that doesn't have all the benefits of BPA and is much more expensive, you'll feel better because of media hype BS.

[Flybye]

As a scientist who works with BPA.... Oh never mind, you don't want to hear the truth. Go ahead, find a cup that doesn't have all the benefits of BPA and is much more expensive, you'll feel better because of media hype BS.

Please share your thoughts - I welcome broadening my mind.

[beccaB]

I would like to know too- any scientisits out there working with parabens and other cosmetic ingredients?

[smilingcat]

Hi TSPoet,

I would like to know to without the media hype and BS. So please let us in on your thoughts.

BTW, in college I started as a physics, major, then went to Chem E. then ended up as an EE. And there are others here with chemical background and I'm sure they would like to know too.

I was more into statistical thermodynamics with Grand Canonical Equations, Eyering rate of reaction theory, simpler version is arrhenius (sp) rate of reaction Aexp(-Ea/kt)... so I am very much interested in what you have to say.

sincerely,

Smilingcat

[TsPoet]

um, OK...
First, I have a PhD in Pharmacology/Toxicology and my sub-field is pharmacokinetics and risk assessment. Back in 15xx, Paracelsus said something to the effect of "the dose makes the poison" (if you google Paracelsus, you'll find what he really said, but that's close enough). Basically what that means is, it doesn't matter if its toxic if you don't get enough of it. Everything is toxic, I've heard stories of people drinking too much water and dieing. Bisphenol A is a big example of this - in studies in rats where they dose with huge amounts of the stuff it has a whole bunch of adverse effects, and its has a fairly well defined mechanism of action. It's mechanism of action is relevant to humans. So, now, media and lots of poeple start screaming, take it out of everything! Which sounds like it makes sence, but
here's the rub. A tiny, almost infinitesimal amount of BPA leaches into your food and water. So, your dose is a fraction of the rat's dose. But, what does that mean? Well, you have to take it a step further, what amount of that absorbs through your intestine? Again, that's a fraction of the infinitesimal "dose" that got there. In fact, studies being done in humans are hampered by detection limits - the amount getting in is so tiny it can't be measured. Oh - in fact there are studies being done in humans - that right there says a lot. My group works with BPA, I don't personally do that. I work with pesticides - we couldn't get permission to do any of the studies that are being done with BPA with our pesticides.
The first big study with BPA that started all this hype can't be repeated, several labs have tried and they just can't get the same results.
So, much of what you've heard about BPA is true - at very very high doses in rats. At low doses - absolutely nothing. Your body is an amazing thing, it can safely clear not only BPA but millions of other things you are exposed to everyday.
BPA is one of the latest-greatest hypes. Wait a few years, it will be something else.
I purposefully expose myself to so many much much more toxic things - alcohol, caffeine, benzene (in gasoline, nasty stuff)... But these we all accept because they've always been there.

[smilingcat]

aspirin in large dose is fatal too.

The question that begs then, is BPA toxicity cumulative like heavy metal poisoning or does the body manage to heal itself before the next round of low level exposure?

sometimes trying to study events at or near the limits of reliable detection leads to junk science. Cold fusion is a good example.

so thank you for your perspective. I really wonder at times of "accelerated life testing" or other testing methods and extrapolating down. It makes me cringe.

[OakLeaf]

So we have to know definitively that something is harmful before we decide to avoid it? What about Catrin's helmet, that had no visible evidence of damage from her fall? Do you also think it was stupid for me to advise her to get a new one?

None of the studies have examined BPA in combination with any of the other endocrine disruptors that are ubiquitous in our environment. The OP never said that avoiding BPA was the only step she was taking to reduce her risk. If she's like me, she's already reduced or discontinued alcohol consumption, wears nitrile gloves to change her vehicles' oil and lube their chains, doesn't allow the electric company to spray 2,4-D on her property, etc., etc. Nor did she say what her inalterable personal risk factors might be, nor would I expect her to in this forum.

What's so important about polycarbonate tableware and packaging, that you have to sneer at people who want to avoid it?



To the OP... why not stainless steel? Does it have to be plastic?

[Tri Girl]

tsPoet- thank you for your side, and telling what you see on a daily basis. Hearing from both sides is important in order to make a logical conclusion based on what's best for an individual. Thank your for sharing!

I will still decide stay away from PBA, nitrates, parabens, lauryl sulphates, etc.
I think we've become toxic in our society, and I'm trying my best (for me) to eliminate anything unnatural as much as possible (on the outside, or what I put inside me for that matter). I might be a tad off the deep end in some respects, but it's what's best for me.
I know the media gets on it's "kicks" sometimes... for good or bad.

Back to the op- I couldn't find ANYTHING when looking online. Sippy cups galore- but NOTHING more than 10 oz. Wow- you wouldn't think it would be so hard to find that kind of thing for adults.

[moonfroggy]

we use stainless steel mugs i got from http://lifewithoutplastic.com/

they hold 13 oz not a lot but a nice amount and i like how they look and got the pitcher they sell with them.

[channlluv]

So you're saying it's okay if I leave a disposable plastic bottle of water in the car, it gets hot, then cools off again, and I can drink it anyway? Because right now I save those for rinsing our feet after the beach.

And nail polish...that's okay, too? Woohoo! I'm back on for mani-pedis. As soon as I get down to 220, I'm treating myself.

Roxy

[Melalvai]

Our country is "innocent until proven guilty" which works great for the courts but maybe not so appropriate for potentially toxic chemicals and drugs. Industry would have us believe these things are safe because no one has showed that they aren't. Then when you really start to look at it, you realize no one has really tried.

I did my PhD in the lab whose results "can't be repeated" (vom Saal) and--it was the chemical industry "attempting" to replicate the experiment. Their published studies have huge logistical holes. Sure, other independent labs should try to replicate the studies. But try getting funding to do a study that has already been published.

Unfortunately it is very difficult to detect delayed and subtle effects in populations. There is probably a subset of our population that is vulnerable to hormone effects. In a typical study we won't see the effects because we don't have a good way to identify these susceptible individuals.

Do you want to take the chance that BPA is innocent because we haven't proven it guilty yet? Are you confident that you are not in that vulnerable subset of our population?

But the sad fact is that you can't eliminate your (or your baby's) exposure to BPA. Hundreds of tons are released into the environment every year during production. It is in our water and air. Eliminating your polycarbonate bottles & dishes is futile because unless the plastic is old, pitted & cracked, it is not leaching much BPA.

[Melalvai]

So you're saying it's okay if I leave a disposable plastic bottle of water in the car, it gets hot, then cools off again, and I can drink it anyway? Because right now I save those for rinsing our feet after the beach.
Roxy

Those bottles aren't polycarbonate. They are a different kind of plastic that does not contain BPA. Polycarbonate is a translucent, hard, brittle plastic.

You will get more BPA from eating food that comes in metal cans, which are lined with a BPA resin.

[channlluv]

Gotcha.

Okay, so how do we flush these toxins from our bodies?

Roxy -- hormonal problems in the process of being diagnosed, so you've got me wondering here...

[Owlie]

TsPoet can jump in here, because I'm just a biology undergrad, but in general, your liver modifies most of the not-food chemicals we ingest into something less toxic, and it makes its way to the kidneys for excretion.

The fun begins, however, with lipid-soluble things. I'm not sure of the exact mechanism, but I imagine that while some of it gets flushed out, some of it ends up being deposited in adipocytes (fat cells). Most of the time, it's not a big problem. It becomes a problem when you start burning that fat.

Roxy, may I ask why the concern about nail polish?