School teaches loans as a a way of life

[MomOnBike]

I remember a similar exercise my daughters did in Jr. High. They were given a budget and a list of things that are pretty standard for life in the modern USA. It was an almost real-life lesson in budgeting for them, and I was glad it was a part of the curriculum. At least something resembling budgeting was being taught.

I found it interesting the way the two approached the lesson. Elder daughter took her (small) budget and squeezed each penny 'til it turned blue. She had problems spending it all, actually, and the teacher insisted that all the money be spent. The other daughter had the reverse problem, running out of money far before she had everything - of course, the muscle car had something to do with that.

I'd say don't sweat this. No matter what else, your child will probably learn that money spends faster than you think it will - unless she's like my elder daughter.

[sgtiger]

*stepping on the soapbox

As a parent, I think it's our job to teach our kids the skills and values that we want them to take into their adulthood to help them be successful in pursuing their goals. And I think that we need to supplement our children's education as we see fit in order to make sure that they are receiving a balanced education. We are, also, able to give them the one-on-one time that is valuable in meeting the individual needs of our child. Things such as personal finance should really start at home anyway, even if it's to show our kids what not to do. With so many resources out there, it's not so difficult to educate ourselves if our knowledge is lacking so that we can better guide our children. I think that children appreciate a frank discussion of those matters even if they may not always seem like they are listening.

Our already taxed school systems can only do so much. I think the fact that some schools are teaching personal finance at all is to be commended. There still are many school districts that do not even broach the subject. Hopefully the children for whom their parents have not managed to teach them about it will get at least an introduction to thinking about how they will manage their money and get a discussion started in their own homes or with their peers. (Yes, sometimes teenagers do talk about such matter amongst themselves.) I think it's always a good idea to contact our children's teachers about any concerns we have. I'm finding that all the educators I've contacted are all too happy to have parent involvement and willing to share their curriculum notes. And most educators I know are happy to get feedback from parents and students so that they can make improvements to their curriculum for the future.

I know for myself I'm thankful that my dad involved me in the monthly budgeting of expenses. It was something that we started to do together when I was twelve. I think it helped me to have more realistic expectations of what my necessary expenses after high school would be than most of my peers at that time.

By the way, Veronica and others educators on the board, I highly appreciate what you do and admire that you have the strength of will and character to do it. There are some days that I can hardly manage my two children. I can only imagine what it's like to have to try to both educate and manage so many at once whose individual needs and capacities vary.

[lph]

For some reason I have this terror of not being able to pay bills, and of being (unplannedly) financially dependent on someone else. So I'm a total nazi when it comes to budgeting and household finances. Not that I don't spend money, I'm more of a spendthrift than my dh, but I know it when I'm spending, and I know I can afford it. I will never forget one of my neighbours at uni asking if I could please chat with her dh about this, because he was getting very closed about this and wouldn't tell her how things were going. It turned out that he'd lost it completely, he'd stopped opening mail and had at least one full shopping bag full of unpaid bills.... It was terrifying! He wouldn't let me help much, but I showed him some practical tips and they finally got help from a counsellor. (And got divorced, whole 'nother story but his financial irresponsibility was definitely a large part of it).

So you bet, my son is going to leave this house with a working knowledge of how to set up a household budget, how to set money aside for regular bills and have them paid directly, and how to never ever buy things on credit unless they're an absolute necessity. And to never believe a bank that wants to lend you money.

[sgtiger]

Melalvie, it just occurred to me that there may be a method to their madness. Perhaps it's to illustrate that they can't live in either situation for very long without needing more resources if they dig themselves into that financial hole?

I don't know about the demography of your area but in the school district I graduated from there is a pretty high rate of teenage pregnancy, kids dropping out of school to get jobs and start a family, or doing so upon graduation. Can you believe it's considered one of the better school districts in the area? I know when I graduated from high school there were quite a few of my friends and acquaintances who were either pregnant, had been pregnant, planning to get pregnant, or had gotten someone else pregnant. Most of them did get married right after they graduated and only one of those marriages that I know of has survived. It's really surprising to find out how many of my fellow classmates have children that will be graduating from high school in a year or two. Sure, I have one that is graduating this year; but I got him the easy way: potty-trained, well behaved and I got to send him back to his mom after playing with him. My stepson attends the same high school I went to and things have not really gotten any better. So perhaps it's a double lesson for those who would make that choice that there is also a heavy financial burden along with the other responsibilities that come with making it?

[smilingcat]

In this exercise, are there any consequences on paper for making bad choices. e.g. bankrupt? If not what is the point of this instruction?

The concept of "power of compounding interest" is not that hard to teach in my mind. And if the game allows you to as some have said, to take alternative means of commute: walk, bike, mass transit instead of used car and then apply the power of compounding interest on the savings, I think the instruction will be very worth while. You can see how you can have your money work for you or against you.

Most people who get rich, get rich by having their money make money for them. And be frugal.

As for marriage thing, does it include partnership? and not just roomate.

[Veronica]

Public schools are not the forum for discussing alternative lifestyles. For all of you who want kids to be aware that homosexual relationships are valid relationships, there are just as many parents who don't want their kids to hear anything at all about that or evolution.

Veronica

[Tri Girl]

As a parent, I think it's our job to teach our kids the skills and values that we want them to take into their adulthood to help them be successful in pursuing their goals.

That is SO true, but sadly- many times it NEVER happens and we educators have to try and teach the most basic things that we shouldn't *need* to (manners, respect, fiscal responsibility, etc).
Take it further with Nell, and have her do something similar at home with YOUR values and ideas. She may get more out of it with your lifestyle/values added to it.
Sadly- *most* people aren't taught this growing up (I wasn't) and end up in big debt because their eyes are bigger than their wallets (ahem: foreclosure problem currently-living beyond your means).

I teach something similar in my middle school class. I also have added the stock market as a learning tool. Students are given $100K to invest in the stock market and their grade depends on how well they do (given certain criteria too lengthy to discuss here). They monitor their stocks weekly and track their progress.
It's a good lesson in life. I had one student who bought $20K worth of stock, and not a week later the company sold out to another company and he lost all his money when the stock became worthless. A lesson in life that many adults have encountered- only with real money. He now said he'll research a company more before buying (something they were instructed to do).

Anywho- if you're really concerned about it, go speak with the teacher, but please keep in mind that I'm sure she's trying to do the best she can to teach them basic budgeting principles. I'm sure she's not trying to bring down the women with archaic thinking (which is subjective because I don't think marriage is, for instance).
Sometimes you have to make lessons like this as basic as possible because, like V said- there may be kids who don't even know how to add or read well at that age and you want them to get something out of it, too.

Just my $.02 as someone who creates lessons and then is CONSTANTLY questioned about my intentions and motives- even if there aren't any ill ones behind it.

[Flybye]

Public schools are not the forum for discussing alternative lifestyles. For all of you who want kids to be aware that homosexual relationships are valid relationships, there are just as many parents who don't want their kids to hear anything at all about that or evolution.

Veronica

I like that. Very much. You are so right. I want my kids to know about many different aspects of humanity and love, just not taught from the school down the street!

[KnottedYet]

Public schools are not the forum for discussing alternative lifestyles. For all of you who want kids to be aware that homosexual relationships are valid relationships, there are just as many parents who don't want their kids to hear anything at all about that or evolution.

Veronica

???
I just read this whole thread, and never saw anything about homosexuality? And schools teaching homosexuality? Did I miss something?

My high school had a graduation requirement that we all take a personal finance class. It was awesome, with similar exercises involving budgets for single households, single parent households, 2 adults, 2 parents plus kids. We had several scenarios to figure out, and had to fill out itemized 1040 forms for taxes. We also played with loans and what the real cost of an item came to if it was purchased with a credit card. I vividly remember getting UTTERLY lost during the discussion about interest, but the idea that "my" $50 TV would end up costing me nearly twice as much if I bought it on credit and paid the minimum every month made a big impact.

I am grateful to this very day for that graduation requirement. We complained about that class and how unfair it was that we had to do so much work for it and some of the scenarios seemed unreal, but it was one of the most valuable classes I took.

[Veronica]

That's my interpretation of "partners," which was used.

Veronica

[Zen]

Partners can be hetero or homosexual. I guess in some eyes either is an "alternative lifestyle" but let's not drift from the main topic of finances

[Owlie]

I wish my high school had covered a bit more than it did. We spent an age learning how to write a check and balance a checkbook . We did learn how to fill out the simplest of income tax forms and the basics of credit cards, but not a whole lot else. Though I must say that the credit card discussion scared me away from ever wanting one. The "monthly budget" thing would have been helpful, as it's not something I was ever really exposed to. I went shopping with my mom, but never really paid attention to the cost of groceries until I got to college, went off the meal plan my junior year and started having to buy my own.

[tulip]

Wow, I'm really impressed at how many of you had any kind of financial education in school--even learning how to balance a checkbook. I had nothing remotely like that, and ended up getting asked to leave by my bank my freshman year in college because I had bounced 18 checks

I had never had a checkbook before and the cursory lesson about balancing a checkbook obviously did not stick. Neither was it paired with any discussion of a budget, so I did not learn to prioritize what I wanted and needed to buy.

I went to a very exclusive, high-achieving private high school. Perhaps they figured that all the kids there had financial ed at home. I did not--my parents were at work all the time to pay for the high school and had no time to teach me stuff at home. I hope they teach this stuff now.

[Tri Girl]

ended up getting asked to leave by my bank my freshman year in college because I had bounced 18 checks

I'm right there with you! My bank didn't ask me to leave, but I got a tongue lashing from the bank lady after a number of bounced checks. After I started crying, she changed gears and did some basic tutoring with me to teach me how to keep my checkbook- I was so embarrassed. I thought I was bright- I went to college on a full-ride scholarship for academics. Too bad I wasn't financially smart.
I had NEVER been taught anything like that. I also was given a credit card my first week on campus and that was the start of my credit card downfall for the next 8 years. I had to learn the VERY hard way. My parents worked their fingers to the bone to pay for 8 kids- but I wish they'd taught us how to budget (considering they surely had to be geniuses to support a family of 10 on 2 non-degreed salaries).

[Melalvai]

Wow, what a discussion this generated. Well, it was just a rant. I don't actually intend to talk to the teacher about it. You are right, I'm thrilled they are teaching personal economics at all. Because all the training I got was in junior high, we learned how to write a check, and how to fill out an income tax form. And we played the stock market game in history.

I've been pleased because Nell's school exercise has opened up a lot of discussion at home. So SHE at least is learning what I think of car loans, and how it is possible to own a car, eventually even a very nice car, without a loan. And of course she sees how well I could get along without a car at all.

I'm not against marriage, by the way. My sister said, when she & her boyfriend moved in together a few years ago, "We don't need the blessings of a church we don't believe in or a government we don't support to be in love." (She's a little more radical than I am.)

My husband & I will celebrate 16 years of marriage in August. Oh--when Nell was practicing the "patriarchal institution" speech, he tried to interject a comment. We turned to him and told him it wasn't his place to speak.

Probably the only way the teacher could get anyone to partner up in marriages for the financial exercise, was to provide the incentives.