Recess Temperatures

[Veronica]

... so I wonder what's changed.

What I see is parents, even great parents, give their kids more voice. Even the great parents I have allow their kids to challenge their authority. I'm talking about ten and eleven year olds challenging their parents, not teens.

While I do think it's good to encourage your kid to have an opinion, there are some things, they just should not question - in my opnion.

Veronica

[Melalvai]

uforgot, after all this discussion, I'm really interested in hearing what your principal decides.

[uforgot]

uforgot, after all this discussion, I'm really interested in hearing what your principal decides.

Well, it's not my principal. I'm in the High School, (I send them on their way after 50 minutes) but I have passed along the information and views to a teacher friend who is a 4th grade teacher, and told me about the policy and how upset all of the teachers were. I hope that they can pull together something and present it to their principal. I'll let you know what happens.

I'm a high school teacher, but I have had elementary students in summer school and I just want to say:

God Bless our Elementary teachers! I have no idea how they do it year after year...

[sfa]

While I do think it's good to encourage your kid to have an opinion, there are some things, they just should not question - in my opnion.

Absolutely true. But wearing a coat in the winter isn't one of those things they shouldn't question. In fact, I think this is a GOOD one to question because it's not likely to cause any real harm (I might insist if the temperature was so low that frostbite was likely) and is one of those great situations where the consequence of a dumb choice is built in. They will be cold and miserable. And if the kid chooses to remain cold and miserable for the sake of looking cool, that's fine. She's made a choice and shown that she has control over what she wears (and really, after age five or six you can't MAKE them wear something if they are intent on not wearing it) and that's a little bit of independence you want them to have.

[Veronica]

Right, but just because the kids make a poor choice to not wear a coat, the teachers should not have to have indoor recess. For most teachers recess is their break. We don't get to just walk out of the room and go to the bathroom. or get a drink or a snack. I can only imagine the chaos that would ensue if I just left my room right now to go to the bathroom. So instituting a rule that there will be indoor recess in MO whenever the temperature is below 40 degrees pretty much guarantees that those teachers will not get a break until March.

It's ludicrous. It's Missouri for goodness sake. It gets cold there all the time.

Veronica

[Irulan]

And if the kid chooses to remain cold and miserable for the sake of looking cool, that's fine. .

haha. Drive by our high school in the winter sometime. Single digits, shorts, on boys.

[Owlie]

This discussion of whether or not a kid chooses to wear layers has me laughing. I was always the kid who wore her coat, hat, gloves and scarf--if anything, I was often overdressed. I still love my layers! My sister, on the other hand, would often go to the bus stop (before I started driving her to school) with no coat, or buy coats that are really not suited for the weather. During her high school career, her winter coat of choice was a lighter (but fashionable) wool-blend thing. Mine was a Lands' End Squall jacket.

My elementary school (in Cincinnati) had a "must be above freezing and no snow" rule. I thought it was silly. I still think it's silly.

[Tri Girl]

oh I had to wear my coat when I left the house to catch the bus in middle school, but always stashed my coat in my locker when I got to school. I hated wearing a coat because it was *uncool* (which I still don't understand).

I just meant that we coddle our children so much these days that they don't get to *experience* things like they should (like being uncomfortable, failure, heartbreak, etc). You know: the "everyone gets a trophy for just showing up" and the "we're all the best so everyone gets to be on the honor roll" kind of stuff. Experiencing failure is a good thing, so is being uncomfortable and let down. I teach some kids that I fear will have a major meltdown in college when they realize that they aren't the only special ones in the world and that sometimes you try hard and still come up short and fail because they have never had that experience. Ya know?

And yes, V, I agree with everything you said. I think you see it differently when you teach. Choice is good, but sometimes what you say goes because you're the parent and that's the way it is.

[OakLeaf]

"everyone gets a trophy for just showing up"

Well that sounds an awful lot like "finishers' medals."

[shootingstar]

I just meant that we coddle our children so much these days that they don't get to *experience* things like they should (like being uncomfortable, failure, heartbreak, etc). You know: the "everyone gets a trophy for just showing up" and the "we're all the best so everyone gets to be on the honor roll" kind of stuff. Experiencing failure is a good thing, so is being uncomfortable and let down. I teach some kids that I fear will have a major meltdown in college when they realize that they aren't the only special ones in the world and that sometimes you try hard and still come up short and fail because they have never had that experience. Ya know?

And yes, V, I agree with everything you said. I think you see it differently when you teach. Choice is good, but sometimes what you say goes because you're the parent and that's the way it is.

+1. There are safe ways for children to experience things like slight discomfort when it's rainy, snowy, etc. in ways that the child is supported by adults in the background with proper clothing and gradual acclimatization.

As an older child and teen, I never thought my parents were being overly hard on me for shovelling snow..or chopping the ice that clogged up a driveway. (a worser, ickier job) it was just another boring task to do, made only easier if the snow was gently and magically falling at night without a wind. And the thing was if the parent makes a super big deal about something uncomfortable/unjust on behalf for the child (when really sometimes a situation wasn't unjust/uncomfortable for child), then the child might just acquiesce and go along with the parent, not knowing any better or take the easier way out.

I meant shovelling the snow several times per wk. each winter. It wasn't occasional.

Thx, for the New Delhi article, tc1. It is what one's body is used to.
In Canada and the U.S. , there are lots of opportunities to become gradually acclimatized to cold weather. Which is the value of having autumn weather.

Though I wore my coat, etc. because I really wanted to, in my rebellious years I used to wear open toed walking sandals to near freezing temperaures in my 20's. I absolutely cannot do that any more!

[Jolt]

Holy crap. Kids are definitely being turned into a bunch of wimps. I was in elementary school in the early '90s and never remember being kept inside due to cold temperatures (grades K-2 in Virginia, 3-5 in Massachusetts). At my school in Westwood, MA we also were outside in the mornings after arriving on the bus, until the actual start of school. The only times I recall being inside (in the cafeteria) is if it was raining, not if it was cold out. We just made sure to have warm clothing and snow boots when needed, and had fun playing until it was time to go in. We also had TWO recesses--one 15-minute morning one, and a half-hour one after lunch. I wonder if that school still does...probably not. On a related subject, who else has noticed that now the school buses stop at every kid's house to pick up/drop off rather than having just one bus stop for each neighborhood? Or is that just around here? It drives me crazy--holds up traffic bigtime, definitely not environmentally friendly b/c of all the idling and slow driving it creates (at a time when one would think that would be a consideration), and since when can kids not walk a block or two to the bus stop? Especially when we need to be helping them get MORE physical activity, most definitely not less!!

[Kathi]

This discussion of whether or not a kid chooses to wear layers has me laughing. I was always the kid who wore her coat, hat, gloves and scarf--if anything, I was often overdressed. I still love my layers! My sister, on the other hand, would often go to the bus stop (before I started driving her to school) with no coat, or buy coats that are really not suited for the weather. During her high school career, her winter coat of choice was a lighter (but fashionable) wool-blend thing. Mine was a Lands' End Squall jacket.

My elementary school (in Cincinnati) had a "must be above freezing and no snow" rule. I thought it was silly. I still think it's silly.

Did you go to a Cincinnati Public School? I grew up in western Hamilton county (Cincinnati area) in the 50's. Regardless of the weather we walked to the main highway to catch our school bus. No matter how miserable the weather Mom did not drive us to the bus stop and I remember being really cold, hot waiting for those school buses. The only days we were inside at school was when there was snow on the ground or it was raining. I remember snuggling up to a corner of the school building for warmth on chilly, windy days. In the winter, we bundled up in layers, wool and cotton and went out to play every day after school. On snowy days we got our hats, socks and gloves wet, went in and dried them out and went out and played in the snow some more.

As an adult I ski 3-4 days a week and I especially love the snowy days when other skiers are bailing because it's too "snowy". I do dress in my "high tech" layers to stay warm on lift chairs but rarely get cold or need to go in for a warm up.

When I was teaching I thought the temp rule was silly because the kids weren't dressed by our adult standards. Many of these kids were latchkey kids who had no opportunity to go outside once they got home. They needed physical exercise every day. The excuse of no hats and gloves was lame too. Our lost and found boxes were full of hats, gloves, jackets and coats that no parent or child bothered to claim. At the end of the school year they were washed and donated to charity.

I agree that we are coddling our children too much and are encouraging the rise of obesity in our youth.

The weather in Missouri isn't all that different than Southwestern Ohio. The kids need to be outside every opportunity they can get, even if it's only for a few minutes.

[Crankin]

V, this is kind of related to your relating the bathroom issues for teachers. Although I finally started just leaving my kids for a couple of minutes to pee (easier in middle school and I always told the teacher next door), I recently had to do an all day urine collection test in preparation as part of preparatory lab work to get Reclast. I didn't want to give up a Sunday of riding or skiing, hiking, etc., so I did it on Thanksgiving day while I cooked, went for a short ride, and ate my dinner.
The endocrinologist called me personally, because she didn't believe that the sample I turned in was "right." She questioned if I had understood the directions to go in the collection bottle for 24 hours. I replied, that yes, I understood, but that after 30 years as a teacher and training myself not to have to pee too often, it's hard to change!
She believed me right away, after that and told me to double my water intake.

[SadieKate]

haha. Drive by our high school in the winter sometime. Single digits, shorts, on boys.

You would think they'd understand shrinkage by this time.

[zoom-zoom]

You would think they'd understand shrinkage by this time.

Perhaps this is a way to avoid embarrassing "tenting" at school.