Dismissed in business conversations?

[shootingstar]

Ginny, every situation is different...but some get places through schmoozing (career polititians could never get a real job), others through technical competance, and others through a combination of the two.

Resolve the path that you want to succeed on. If you choose the technical path, you will likely always be experiencing what you note above, but that doesn't mean you can't have a career but rather that you may be happiest in a different situation.

Just my humble opinion...and I'm not a schmoozer but I am in an executive role in a company with a few hundred employees.

Over the years, I had chats with guys (engineering background) and more individually (you will find out alot more) where they had to make a decision like what Mr. Silver described above: there is a point later in career path, where one ends up having to decide to be technically a "star" and remain on that path or move into the management side, which is what these guys are doing, when they are talking about setting up a business/major project/venture.

Meanwhile while you take time to make that decision (which will take several years), one does have to network across any organization that you work for, to be a "known" face in the firm, to understand the work you do/value you provide to the firm and to be on cross-functional teams (which these guys may refuse to acknowlege right now), be participating at those team meetings, etc.

Perhaps just maintaining a respectful working relationship with your project manager is best for now, while seek elsewhere in the firm for other guys that you can network, sit down have a coffee and talk about work, etc.

I have worked in several male dominant organizations where I found it best to know informally several different guys across an organization of different rank (junior to senior management) and develop those working relationships, find out about the meetings, etc.

Meanwhile publish, deliver talks,...and leave the firm soon.

Are you willing to take courses in business strategy development, marketing, project management, contracts negotiation to complement your scientific technical training?

[Grog]

Quit worrying about being called a *****. Do not deliberately act like one, sure, but don't worry about it, even if it happens.

I also suggest more assertive behaviour. And, by the way, it's never too late to change seat.

Good luck!

[Melalvai]

This is a "great" learning experience that sucks when you are experiencing it but you can (try to) comfort yourself with that you are learning a lesson now while you are in your PhD program. The more you learn now, the better off you will be later.

At least, that is what I keep telling myself. And I counter that with "If it doesn't kill me or put me in an institution first." or "better off doesn't mean much when there's so, so much else that is wrong." (The pessimistic side has subsided since I accepted the "real" job offer. And while I'm at it, can I discourage you from doing a postdoc unless you really really know what you are after? In fact I hope you have a really good idea of what you're going for with the PhD, and that it isn't a tenure track faculty position, because there are way more people who are very well qualified than there are jobs.)

Sorry, that was a digression. Anyway, this is an interesting conversation.

I agree, it sounds like this is a bad environment, and if you can extricate yourself sooner than later it would be best. Before you fall victim to the politics that are playing out. Trust me, it sucks to get kicked out of a lab.

[ginny]

Mel,

Um... I am guessing you have spent some time in academia / post docs? I totally agree. That's why I opted for the MS the first time around.

Nope, what I am really hoping is that we get lots of SBIR and STTR money and maybe some private money and make a new and cool company doing what I love with people I really like. I am SO stoked about the prospect of being involved in starting this new company. I am ever so stoked to have a long-term job prospect that I am creating for myself in a relatively small town. I hope we are successful (my advisor has a track record of being successful), and I hope that when we eventaully sell, the big company that buys us leaves us here. I know this sounds like a pipe-dream, but he (my advisor) did it once, so let's hope it works a second time.

Yes, I like the idea of making money on the prospect, but I REALLY like the idea of creating a niche for myself outside of academia and outside of a government lab. Mel, add that to your list of places not to go - except the CDC, they are pretty good. In the mean time, I suppose I have to learn how to be a grown up at some point (have I mentioned I'm 35!!!????)

[tangentgirl]

Nope, what I am really hoping is that we get lots of SBIR and STTR money and maybe some private money and make a new and cool company doing what I love with people I really like. I am SO stoked about the prospect of being involved in starting this new company.

Look at this as practice. If you are eventually starting your own business and asking people for money, then knowing how to jump into these conversations and not be dismissed will be a useful tool for you. Polish it now (without getting pulled into the gossip), and it will be much easier later.

[tc1]

I used to dis all of this networking stuff, too. I work in a field that used to be all male, and is still mostly male. I finally figured out, that you have to talk to these guys. Stand next to them whenever they form their little groups, and ask questions. Eventually the hardest part will be getting them to shut up and let you talk.

I gotta tell ya, if you thought as I did, that working with more women would be easier, you are wrong. We have more women in our workgroup now, and they have created so much strife and discontent through drama, that I am completely disillusioned and depressed. The latest is one woman screamed swear words at one of the men, then she complained to HR and lied about it, and HR is completely taking her side. Give me the old boys any day, they at least have the grace to apologize when they say something really crass and stupid.

[Mr. Bloom]

I work in a field that used to be all male, and is still mostly male.

Me too! I THOUGHT! But this thread prompted me to take note of something I hadn't noticed in my own office building.

My building houses the revenue areas for my company. We have 22 employees in the building, 14 of them are professional staff and 8 are adminstrative. Of the professional staff, 10 are women and 4 are men!

In banking, my casual observation is that the professional staff is usually 50/50 femaie/male...but it shifted in my own office...and I didn't even notice...

No wonder I'm comfortable on TE!