Traveling to Belgium...Papaver help!!!!

[papaver]

The problem with learning to drive a stick in France/Belgium is that you are going to be driving a stick, trying to figure out road signs in another language, going around round abouts, while keeping an eye out for cyclists, pedestrians, and other cars.

And trying to read a map. Often times directions are not given in Route 1 north vs route 1 south, they're going tob e in "LIlle this way" "all other directions that way"

And you're going to be trying to get used to roundabouts.

I theoretically know how to drive a stick and have theoretically driven one for years (I initially learned to drive on a stick and have driven other people's stick shifts over the years, but have never had a stick shift myself), but it's still quite difficult to manage all of the above while driving a stickshift in france and belgium because I'm still strugglin with the stick. I can't imagine what kind of a terror it will be for you guys to try to figure out how to drive a stick while doing all of the above. If you are going to drive a stick over there, find a friend who has a stick shift and is willing to sacrifice their clutch for you guys so that you won't be complete noobs when you get over there. YOu can request an automatic, sometimes they charge more for them.

It is not difficult to rent a car in France, and I've rented a car a few times in Paris and dropped it off in Brussels. I don't remember there being required additional insurance fees - but you may have to prove that you get insurance from your credit card. If you want more protection, american express has an extended auto insurance program where if you sign up, everytime you rent a car on it, they will charge you $25 extra for extended insurance coverage. But make sure of all of that and the conditions when you are renting the car. Sometimes they charge extra for two drivers, so make sure you don't get surprised by that.

What else? In Belgium - Ghent's gorgeous, as is Antwerp, Brussels as well. Visit those. Belgium does have a really extensive rail system, so you really aren't going to need a car, and it might be a pain dealing with parking in cities - city hotels may charge parking. If it's warm, Oostende's a pretty beach town.

If you do rent the car in France, you can drive drive to Belgium via Normandy, etc. and do some of the sight seeing along the way.

My recommendation would be to not rent the car at the car rental place under the Louvre (or under the thing across the street) Driving in Paris is a nightmare. Driving in Paris a couple of times and getting food poisoning there another time or two has basically spoiled your happy place for me.


You could maybe check out Ryanair.com and see what flights are around europe - they do fly into Brussels Charleroi and you used to be able to get dirt cheap flights between that, scotland, ireland, italy, and spain

I would also advise you to travel by train and not by car. It is dead easy. Bruges is beautiful, Ghent is my most favorite city (but i'm biased, i studied there), Brussels is nice if you know it, Antwerp(en) is the place to be if you love to shop and if you love trendy stuff (the Antwerp trainstation is magnificent!!!!). Leuven is small but quite nice and cosy. Everything is very easy by train. Brussels airport has it's own trainstation so no problems there. And you don't have to park your car (very expensive!!!!) I would advise you to stay in Gent. It's more central than bruges. But even when you stay in Bruges you'll never be longer than one hour on the train (maybe 1h15 max).

I think it's easier to take the Thalys from Paris to Brussels and then the train to bruges (it'll be faster I think, but I'm not sure).

[papaver]

oh yes and you can rent bikes (same system as in paris) in brussels too. it must be possible in bruges and gent too. Bruges (Leuven) and Gent are very cycling friendly cities because the medieval centres are car free. And like Tulip said, bruges, ghent, brussels, antwerp and leuven are very walkable cities. Oostende is nice in the springtime. De Haan is very pretty too (belle epoque coast city).

[indysteel]

Oh, he'd most definitely learn to drive a stick before we went to Europe. That said, the idea of trying to navigate in a foreign country doesn't appeal to me terribly. One of my friends who had a bad experience with renting a car in France had a GPS for the car, and she said it come in VERY handy.

Papaver, Gent is one of the places we wanted to drive to. Beyond being more centrally located than Bruges, why do you prefer it? A few years back, Budget Travel magazine did an article on Gent and I remember thinking "I must go there," but I can't remember much from it. I remember that it was very cycling-centric. I like the idea of renting bikes for the day and tooling around.

Thanks for all the help. If you have any suggestions regarding where to eat, what to see, etc., I'd certainly welcome them.

[indysteel]

One other question, Papaver. We're planning to depart Tuesday May 4th and return Saturday May 15th. I'm torn about how to split up the time and which city to go to first. On the assumption that we take a day trip to either Gent or Bruges (depending on which we choose for a base), how much time should be budget for Belgium? Do you think it's appreciably easier to fly or depart from either city? Flying into and out of Paris is a PITA if a recollect correctly!

[Cataboo]

A GPS will be handy. Load it up with the maps for Belgium & France before you go. I used mine driving in Scotland last year, and in Costa Rica a few months ago.

Just know that the GPS isn't quite a replacement for having a map and knowing where you're going - you can start blindly following those things down bizarre paths. And it can still be confusing which way you're supposed to go off a roundabout.

[tulip]

Indysteel, are you wanting to stay and visit cities only or get to little farms and countryside? If you are going to stay in the cities, definitely TAKE THE TRAIN!

If you decide you need a day in the country, the best thing to do is to take the train to a smaller town and rent a car from there.

But the best advice is to take the train and not drive. Trains are more convenient and a whole, whole, whole lot cheaper than renting a car. Renting a car is expensive because of the rental fees and tarifs (high), gas (like $8 gallon), tolls (very high--like $20 each time last time I was there), and parking (expensive and a total PITA).

So why would you want to drive, again??

[Grog]

I also agree that taking the train is the single best way to get around. You can always rent bikes and go for easy rides (it's pretty flat) on the country side without even having to go more than 20 km. Especially in Belgium.

Driving in Brussels or Paris would really, really ruin things for me. I've driven over about a third of France, but I have horrible memories of driving in Paris. The Velib' however is so much fun!

I'm very envious!

Some lovely Belgian images from my friend Hugues, perhaps the first photoblogger, who's still going strong after 14 years: http://www.fugitif.net/

[papaver]

Oh, he'd most definitely learn to drive a stick before we went to Europe. That said, the idea of trying to navigate in a foreign country doesn't appeal to me terribly. One of my friends who had a bad experience with renting a car in France had a GPS for the car, and she said it come in VERY handy.

Papaver, Gent is one of the places we wanted to drive to. Beyond being more centrally located than Bruges, why do you prefer it? A few years back, Budget Travel magazine did an article on Gent and I remember thinking "I must go there," but I can't remember much from it. I remember that it was very cycling-centric. I like the idea of renting bikes for the day and tooling around.

Thanks for all the help. If you have any suggestions regarding where to eat, what to see, etc., I'd certainly welcome them.

Bruges is beautiful, no doubt about it. But it's also dead in the evenings. Ghent is just as beautiful, it's less touristical and very vibrant during the night. It's a great balance between culture, cuisine, shopping and just fun. I know a great B&B in Gent. What to visit? Just walk around and be amazed. There are so many medieval buildings, little streets (like Patershol). And the centre of the city (that's almost 65%) is entirely car free. And you can cycle to Sint-Martens-Latem (15 kms or so). That is a very very pittoresk place. A lot of artsist lived there at the beginning of the 20th century.

On Sunday mornings there are small markets everywhere in Gent (the flower market with live music, a champagne & oyster stand > extremely popular and very cosy). Bookmarkets, antiques... Great stuff.

Everything in Belgium is very closeby. So if you only visit cities, it's a bit silly to rent a car. There is a slight difference between drivers in the States and Europe (ahum). They are a lot more agressive.

If you take the Thalys (high speed train) from Paris to Brussels, it only takes 1h20 mins (yes only 80 minutes). And you have no traffic jams whatsoever. I never go to paris with my car because it's so much easier. And i hardly ever visit a city by car either. The train is so much easier.

To visit the cities, count a day per city. And then you can decide which city you can go back to (you'll definately want that). Between Bruges and Gent it's only 45 kms or so. More or less the same between Gent and Brussels and Gent and Antwerpen.

This is a very handy site to plan your trip by train.
http://www.b-rail.be/main/E/

If you would do this by car you'll have lots of traffic jams, and you'll loose lots of time searching parkingspace. I personally would never do it.

You can fly back to the states from Brussels airport (it has its own trainstation), or you can take the Thalys back to paris (which will be cheaper, i think).

This is the site for the high speed train. http://www.thalys.com/

The earlier you order your trainticket, the cheaper it'll be.