WWTEPD??- aka What Would TE Peeps Do

[indysteel]

Running Mommy,

We battle the same thing in my local cycling community. We have nightly "training" rides that sound very much like the ride you're complaining about except that it happens 5 times a week. I certainly don't think there's anything wrong with you speaking to the group as a "concerned cyclist," but from my experience, it won't change behavior. Our local group has dealt with the police any number of times, got run down by an angry motorist/homeowner (she ran her car into the group) and had a fatality last year (there was wheel contact in the middle of the pack and a massive pileup) and NONE of that has changed behavior. There might be a short "cooling off" period, but they ultimately revert back to their old ways. I'm sure there are individual cyclists have chosen to forego the ride because of all or some of this, but the group itself remains just as reckless. I'm not sure what it's going to take for them to change.

So, with that in mind, if you feel like you have more to lose than you have to gain, then I'd keep quiet or have the police intervene anonymously.

Good luck!

[OakLeaf]

Is there another group in your area that can take the initiative, so that you don't have to risk losing business by being the public face of the complaints? As others have suggested, a bicycle resource officer at the PD? A more recreational cycling club? A transportation coordinator or committee?

I think there is a chance that you may have a lot of positive feedback in the cycling community to offset the negative - but I sure understand not wanting to take the risk, too.

[shootingstar]

The ride group that indysteel describes and their muleheadness probably is an indicator that things don't change even after various incidents.

Having the police made aware of the ride day, locations points for checkpoints might be useful.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I agree, get the local police involved, and explain your tricky position to them.
Perhaps the police will simply label you as a concerned citizen.
This group is putting people's lives in danger- their own and others' lives too. the police need to force them to obey traffic safety laws.

[smilingcat]

Contact the community resource officer in your police department and have him meet with the group to address the problem. It shouldn't be a voluntary meeting, have the officer show up where to ride meets and tell the group in no uncertain terms of how the cow is going to eat the cabbage. Weekend mornings are slow in most small to medium sized towns. Let the group know that officers are going to stop the group should violations be observed and the riders ticketed. End of story. No warnings. If your city has a bike unit, you might talk to the head of the bike unit as well. But it doesn't need to be a feel good meeting...a stern warning about what IS going to happen. I bet the PD would like to know when and where this ride begins because more than likely they have gotten complaints about it.

++1 and more!!

One thing I've learned about guys like these are that the only thing they understand is a $200 tickets. Have the police give them a stern warning at the meeing place. Then have other officers wait for them at few of the stop signs.

All it takes is one bad apple in a bushel... in this case its far more than one. There is no excuse for deliberately swerving toward the passing car and flipping off the driver.

And Denise,

I don't think you should be spray painting messages on the road. I believe that is a violation. AND I WOULD CALL THE POLICE ANNONYMOUSLY (if possible) TO AVOID REPERCUSSION FROM THE BAD BOYS. (oh Denise said poster boards not spraying painting the message on the road. BAD ME.)

Obnoxious and ill mannered riders like these boys really infurriate me.

[SadieKate]

I don't think you should be spray painting messages on the road. I believe that is a violation. AND I WOULD CALL THE POLICE ANNONYMOUSLY (if possible) TO AVOID REPERCUSSION FROM THE BAD BOYS.

Where's the suggestion to spray paint on the road?

Just get the community PD office to help. They may have to do it several times, but I'm sure they'd rather start now than after something more serious.

[WindingRoad]

Indy

I am all too familiar with the group you are referring, I fortunately had other obligations the night of the fatality and was not there. I quit going shortly after that incident. It's like they were a little more careful but then there were these hothead guys that just kept being idiots. I seriously get so annoyed by the testosterone floating around at some of those rides, makes me want to put my frame pump in their spokes

ALL

I have often wondered if some of the stupidity of these groups is stemming from a lack of guidance of new riders by older or more experienced riders? I was lucky when I started riding and found some good people to ride with and learn from but it doesn't seem like that is always the case? However I didn't learn much about etiquette and rules of the road until I started commuting hard core so I think a lot of this gets overlooked by the local clubs/groups. I suppose my view is that we need to start having more classes on etiquette and the laws. I like the idea of a code of conduct too.

[Fredwina]

It hard, as we've got some of same problems.
I'll agree with windingroad's comments - I was midly surprised that a lot of our riders don't know how to softpedal
Doing a hammerfest ride in urban environment has it's problems The goal of hanging with the group is hard when you have lights every half mile and no one wants to regroup, plus the mentoring is more aimed towards race training than touring
LE crackdowns - i'm not sure that will help outside of confisticating bikes. We've had the police call us, but....
Right now, i'm doing my own ride and joining up for coffee hour. besides some floks don't like my cool bike

[bmccasland]

Yeah, but Arizona does have the advantage of long wide open roads, if one is willing to drive about 15 minutes more beyond the urban limits. So the hammerfest gang could drive a bit further for their start and not have the urban issues.

[Loraura]

If it is a legal issue, then call the legal athorities (cops) so they can do their job and enforce laws. There is a reason we pay cops. I never try to do their jobs. I have my own, and I'm not equipped or trained to do theirs.

If it is a moral issue... you're SOL. No way you can enforce morals on others. They will trash talk you for trying.

Frankly, I doubt much less than expensive tickets will change their behavior, and even then, probably not for long. I would guess that they are more concerned with their ave MPH than ANYthing else at that point. Not getting dropped being paramount. If you stop, you get dropped by those who don't.

If they got tickets, the ride leaders MIGHT start putting forth a larger effort to obey traffic laws.

I absolutely would not put my lively hood at risk trying to get ashholes to stop being asshholes. That's a loosing battle.

[Melalvai]

It might be hopeless that that particular group will ever change its behavior, but I heard a story about a cycling group up here.

A guy took the bike ed class. Next time he was riding with his club, he told them he was going to stop at the stop sign. Stop sign came up--he stopped--they blew past him.

To his surprise, at the top of the next hill they waited for him to catch up.

Next stop sign--every one of them stopped.

I think some of them might be inclined to stop, but won't do it themselves because it will look uncool. If they see someone else do it, and they follow suit, the 1st guy to do it is the uncool one.

[azfiddle]

I have a picture that my DH took showing the Team Radio Shack riders stopping at a stop sign before starting up Mt. Lemmon last month....

[shootingstar]

A guy took the bike ed class. Next time he was riding with his club, he told them he was going to stop at the stop sign. Stop sign came up--he stopped--they blew past him.

To his surprise, at the top of the next hill they waited for him to catch up.

Next stop sign--every one of them stopped.

I think some of them might be inclined to stop, but won't do it themselves because it will look uncool. If they see someone else do it, and they follow suit, the 1st guy to do it is the uncool one.

Wonder what a bunch of competent female cyclists would do if one of them stopped, etc. like the above story.

Anyway, interesting example.

[spokewench]

Ooh boy, I would stay away from trying to interfere with that ride. We have a ride like that up here too; basically, it is the only community ride available - saturday morning -

Of course, there are people within that ride that would like to change the dynamic, but they are not strong enough to do so. I always believed that the "boys" cause they are "Boys", not ladies nor men, have the attitude they can do anything they want to. They will not listen to you; trust me, I tried here in our community and it was a joke. They just get worse!

I even tried to start another ride, a B ride, so there would be an opportunity for other than the fastest and elitist riders to ride on. They accused me of trying to steal their ride, that I had no right to do anything about what was offered in the community. (Of course, their thinking was flawed, because I am a part of the cycling community and at one time could even hang for a lot of the ride when I was younger and faster if I wanted to). They are not rational and they are not ready to listen to logic; so I guarantee to you, it will not help for you to confront them about their behavior. I have the experience to prove it!

spoke

[featuretile]

I'm really glad that my local bike club is really into safety. They even sponsor beginner bike classes that teach correct road rules. I feel much safer riding with the group because motorists realize that there are bikes around. 'A' rides are easy, 'B' medium, 'C' hard. I don't see too much of the C riders. There aren't alot of A rides, because most of the group are B and above. Most of the riders are older. I'm trying to work up to the B rides. The only time people ride 2 abreast are on relatively empty country roads. Stop at every stop light, and at least slow down at stop signs. Everyone yells car back and gets over to the right side of the road. Uses hand signals for all turns.

The riders that seem dangerous here are the ones riding alone that never learned anything and are riding on the wrong side of the road.....

I don't even find the really good riders to be arrogant. Glad I live here. I would hate to be in your position (owning a bike shop) with the kind of riders around that give biking a bad name.