religious wars; bike lanes removed and repainted

[Zen]

Snobby's take from earlier this week-
http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/2009...ou-cities.html

[Onix]

Laughable.

Getting rid of bikelanes doesn't get rid of cyclists. It just makes riding on the street less safe.



Man, those cyclists must have been working really hard to FORCE people to look at them...

[shootingstar]

Perhaps it may only truly a few vocal folks within the Hasidic community that are truly against the bike lanes in their neighbourhood. The quote excerpt is a Jewish person who appears to be a "bridge" as a cycling advocate and in conjunction with the Hasidic community. Note the the last sentence of the excerpt below.

Appreciate the hard work people who are "bridges". They might appear wishy-washy to both parties/sides of the conflict. But folks like him, are very necessary and do hard work behind-the-scenes on divisive matters. It takes awhile for the simmering to go down.

http://ghostbikesfilm.tumblr.com/pos...-to-copenhagen

Baruch Herzfeld, an Orthodox Jew who runs a South Williamsburg bike clubhouse, has emerged as the unofficial spokesperson for cyclists. During a phone conversation a few minutes ago, Herzfeld told us:

How can Mayor Bloomberg go to Copenhagen and pose as a green mayor after this? He’s a hypocrite, and I believe his office directed the DOT to remove this bike lane as a political favor for the rabbis, who want to keep South Williamsburg a ghetto enclave. There was no discussion with the community, like with the Kent Ave bike lane. And this bike lane was just a visual reminder for drivers to keep their eyes open for cyclists. But the rabbis don’t want a visual reminder that there are other people in the neighborhood besides the Hasidim.
One woman asked me if she should go topless [during an upcoming protest] and I told her no, because we’re not trying to create more confrontation with the Hasids, who actually hate the rabbis much, much, much more than I do. The Hasids in the community are not the problem; they give me the thumbs up when I bike by, and even Hasidic women have told me they really approve what I’m doing. They hate the rabbis for trying to control their lives, intimidate them and scare them.

http://gothamist.com/2009/12/09/bike..._themselve.php I'm a bit confused, so were the night-time bike illegal bike lane painters, Jewish? Or posing as Jews?

http://www.forward.com/articles/112918/ Work of the Jewish "bridge" cycling advocate.

I await folks who live in/near NYC to give us more clarification.

[Zen]

For clarification-

There were bike lanes there.
For some reason the Hasidic Jewish community wanted them removed and the City of New York removed them.
The Hipsters were re-painting the lanes that were there before the brouhaha.
They weren't just going around painting bike lanes willy-nilly.

[smilingcat]

Well if the hasid men are tempted, I can always bring a hot poker and we can put their eyes out.

Problem solved! So simple...

I'm not a violent person so I would never do such a thing or even comtemplate such thing. Just pointing out some idiotness of the whole thing.

[kenyonchris]

Ridiculousness on both sides of the coin, if what we are reading is really all there is to it. Removing bike lanes because of people in tight clothes is goofy, but repainting the bike lanes illegally is just...illegal.

[Crankin]

Shooting Star, I think that quite a few of the "illegal" repainters were Jewish. But they are not Hasids, not even Orthodox, like the bridge person you mentioned.
There are many branches of Judaism, and there are divisions (schisms?) in each of these branches. There is a huge difference in observance and lifestyle between someone who is Modern Orthodox, like the person Shooting Star mentioned, and the Hasids. The comparison between Hasids and fundamentalist Muslims is quite apt. My cousin, who I was very close to, became involved with a Hasid group, after being totally unreligious. It caused a major break in my relationship with his whole family. I've heard he's moderated, to more of a mainstream Orthodox synagogue, but it was too much for me.
Trek, my take on the Hell thing is a little hazy. The concept of going to Hell certainly is not emphasized or talked about in the Reform liturgy. The emphasis is on doing good while you're here on Earth... so you actually make a difference in other's lives (i.e. repairing the world), not so you avoid going to Hell after death. Hence, most probably the reason there are so many Jewish people in helping professions. But, I am not actually sure that there is no concept of Hell.
Just my take on this. I asked my son, who spends a lot of time visiting friends in NYC, who live in Brooklyn, about this. He knew all about the issue and said it is really crazy just to drive through there.

[owlice]

The comparison between Hasids and fundamentalist Muslims is quite apt.

Except that I don't fear being bombed/attacked at my place of work by Hasidim, who, so far as I know, aren't interested in killing people who aren't Hasidic Jews just because those people aren't Hasidic Jews.

That said, the streets are public and should have what's necessary to make travel on the streets safe. If that means bike lanes, there should be bike lanes, and shame on the mayor for making the streets less safe.

[Crankin]

owlice, I meant the comparison was apt in terms of the lifestyle and the degree to which the (male) religious establishment wants to keep the women "protected" from outsiders. You are right, in that I would not fear violence from most Hasids, although there is a history (Maher Kahane in the '70's).
In general, I try to keep an open mind, but trying to shield women from the outside world is not something that I can condone in any religion, even my own. Domestic violence is a somewhat unspoken issue in the Orthodox community in general, which upsets me. Somehow, that "woman of valor" thing gets twisted around.
I wonder how this will be resolved.

[IvonaDestroi]

Seperation of church and state anyone? ANYONE???

umm safety is the issue? no bike lane is safer??? I think that might just be an excuse to undercut the actual religious issues of seeing the real world around them not conforming to their personal beliefs.

and on the topic of hipsters:I hate them. They are just rich kids pretending to be poor, following the latest mtv trends religiously, trying to be cool with no actual respect for any of the origins of what they think is trendy. They ride colorful fixed gear bicycles that their parents pay for, and think that makes them cool. they ride not because they love to cycle, but because it is trendy. The only reason they are 'protesting' like that is because they know mommy and daddy will always bail them out.


and an amusing definition of hipster from urbandictionary.com:

hipster:
Listens to bands that you have never heard of. Has hairstyle that can only be described as "complicated." (Most likely achieved by a minimum of one week not washing it.) Probably tattooed. Maybe gay. Definitely cooler than you. Reads Black Book, Nylon, and the Styles section of the New York Times. Drinks Pabst Blue Ribbon. Often. Complains. Always denies being a hipster. Hates the word. Probably living off parents money - and spends a great deal of it to look like they don't have any. Has friends and/or self cut hair. Dyes it frequently (black, white-blonde, etc. and until scalp bleeds). Has a closet full of clothing but usually wears same three things OVER AND OVER (most likely very tight black pants, scarf, and ironic tee-shirt). Chips off nail polish artfully after $50 manicure. Sleeps with everyone and talks about it at great volume in crowded coffee shops. Addicted to coffee, cigarettes (Parliaments, Kamel Reds, Lucky Strikes, etc.), and possibly cocaine. Claims to be in a band. Rehearsals consist of choosing outfits for next show and drinking PBR. Always on the list. Majors or majored in art, writing, or queer studies. Name-drops. May go by "Penny Lane," "Eleanor Rigby," etc. when drunk.

[Zen]

"Probably tattooed. Maybe gay. Definitely cooler than you. Has a closet full of clothing but usually wears same three things OVER AND OVER (most likely very tight black pants, scarf, and ironic tee-shirt). Addicted to coffee, and possibly cocaine. Claims to be in a band. . Majors or majored in art"

I think I might be a hipster

[owlice]

Crankin, points taken!

Zen, oh, say it isn't so!

[7rider]

"Probably tattooed. Maybe gay. Definitely cooler than you. Has a closet full of clothing but usually wears same three things OVER AND OVER (most likely very tight black pants, scarf, and ironic tee-shirt). Addicted to coffee, and possibly cocaine. Claims to be in a band. . Majors or majored in art"

Holy crow. You just described my nephew to a tee. And my ... what is he? My step-nephew??

[Trek420]

Shooting Star, I think that quite a few of the "illegal" repainters were Jewish. But they are not Hasids, not even Orthodox, like the bridge person you mentioned.
There are many branches of Judaism, and there are divisions (schisms?) in each of these branches. There is a huge difference in observance and lifestyle between someone who is Modern Orthodox, like the person Shooting Star mentioned, and the Hasids.

There's variations within this but basically 3 categories: reform, conservative and orthodox.

Reform would be more progressive more likely to allow/have a female rabbi, cantors or both. Most would perform and honor LGBT marriages and families. Think of your liberal/progressive church.

Conservative might not dress any differently, indistinguishable from a largely Christian community but they are well ... more conservative, more likely to keep kosher etc.

Orthodox, adhering strictly to the Torah.

My grandmother grew up in an Orthodox household, her mother even had an arranged marriage, two of them actually. Her father (so my great great grandfather) did not like his first choice of a husband even though great grandma had come to fall in love with him. He demanded she divorce him and remarry someone more to his liking.

[Biciclista]

My grandmother grew up in an Orthodox household, her mother even had an arranged marriage, two of them actually. Her father (so my great great grandfather) did not like his first choice of a husband even though great grandma had come to fall in love with him. He demanded she divorce him and remarry someone more to his liking.

That's one of the saddest stories I've ever heard...