Looking to start really "Mountaining" :)

[biker chick]

Hard tails are faster than full suspension. Full suspension is probably safer because more shock is absorbed through rough terrain which gives you a better sence of control. I climb better on a full suspension if it isn't a smooth trail. overall I prefer a full suspension.

[singletrackmind]

For the dough go with a hardtail.
But first...
Think about the type of terrain on the trails around you. Here in Mo everything is easily doable on a hardtail. A full suspension is definitely more comfortable on our rocky rooty terrain but our relatively short, sharp uphills are best on a hardtail unless you have one of the upper-end full suspensions that all but eliminate pedal bob. Personally the hardtail has suited me fine all these years, even on the different terrain of other states such as CO, UT, NC, etc.
You may choose to wait and save for a good full suspension.
Talk to not just one, but several different shops about what would best serve your purpose and budget and then test as many of those bikes as you can. Kona's been mentioned, also Specialized, Trek, Gary Fischer, Raleigh and I'm sure many others. Fit fit fit, as someone already mentioned.
As for wet and sloppy conditions, I don't know about your area but we stay off muddy trails-they would soon be ruined were we to ride on them. You may not have the types of erosion issues we have around here, though.
Best of luck finding your mountain bike and welcome to the world of dirt!

[Veronica]

Hard tails are faster than full suspension. Full suspension is probably safer because more shock is absorbed through rough terrain which gives you a better sence of control. I climb better on a full suspension if it isn't a smooth trail. overall I prefer a full suspension.

Ahh... but that control is illusion. On our Utah trip this year I watched a couple of pretty new riders never get out of their saddles on downhills because of the suspension. Tumbles waiting to happen because of where their weight was.

I actually miss riding my zero suspension old Rockhopper sometimes. Not having suspension really forces you to develop good skills. Plus my arms always looked so buff when I got done.

I like the lightness of front suspension only. Sometimes I have to push my bike or carry it and pushing the extra weight of the full suspensions we rented in Utah was no fun.

V.

[Irulan]

Ahh... but that control is illusion. On our Utah trip this year I watched a couple of pretty new riders never get out of their saddles on downhills because of the suspension. Tumbles waiting to happen because of where their weight was.
V.

yep, totally agree. Sounds like a severe case of FS Sofa Butt Syndrome.

"it's the rider, not the bike".

The best suspension in the world won't save you if you don't have the skills. I see way too many folks use the fs excuse of more suspension to not learn bike handling skills.

~I.

[caligurl]

interesting that you are talking about getting out the saddle on downhill.... went on another group MTB ride sunday (much nicer weather than the rain and cold of last time!) anyways.... as i was slowly coming down a hill.... a couple of the experienced guys were giving me pointers as they went by... including telling me to get out of the seat! one of them also suggested lowering my seat for the downhill part.... i did, indeed, help!

i'm learning! slowly but surely!

p.s. i have a hardtail

[biker chick]

In Brian Lopez's book Mastering Mountain Bike Skills, p. 5, he writes," cross-country trail bike with 4 inches front and rear travel. I ride this bike most often...lots of hard climbs and fast technical descents... rocks, deep ruts, and rad, bermed turns. " I am sure an expert as himself gets out of the saddle even on a full suspension. On p. 2-3 he talks about hardtail or full suspension. "Hardtals...perform better in two particular conditions (1) cross country riding on smooth trails and (2) dirt jumping and bikecross on smooth courses. The lighter, more stiffer bikes transmit more power to the ground...In almost all other off road situations, full suspension is superior. You can ride faster and on rougher terrain with more comfort and more control than with a hardtail."

[DirtDiva]

Someone shoot his editor for letting "more stiffer" get published!

Anyway. I ride a hardtail, but I'd always get off the saddle going downhill - hanging off the back just makes it that much more fun.

[Irulan]

In Brian Lopez's book Mastering Mountain Bike Skills, p. 5, he writes," cross-country trail bike with 4 inches front and rear travel. I ride this bike most often...lots of hard climbs and fast technical descents... rocks, deep ruts, and rad, bermed turns. " I am sure an expert as himself gets out of the saddle even on a full suspension. On p. 2-3 he talks about hardtail or full suspension. "Hardtals...perform better in two particular conditions (1) cross country riding on smooth trails and (2) dirt jumping and bikecross on smooth courses. The lighter, more stiffer bikes transmit more power to the ground...In almost all other off road situations, full suspension is superior. You can ride faster and on rougher terrain with more comfort and more control than with a hardtail."

Whichever kind of bike you choose, you will be a better technical rider if you get off the saddle. And, as V pointed out, much less likely to tumble. A FS can really help smooth out a rough trail, but it will be even smoother still when you are out of the saddle and using your body in a dynamic fashion. When you just sit on the FS and let it do all the work, ( sofa butt) it's still a pretty rough ride, and less forgiving of technical errors.

[Veronica]

In Brian Lopez's book Mastering Mountain Bike Skills, p. 5, he writes...

Well of course he is an expert, he has expert level skills.

But the original question was from someone who is looking to get into more serious mountain biking not an expert.

My concern with a person new to mountain biking is that FS does not seem to encourage development of skills. That concern is based on personal observation of new riders who were on full suspension bikes.

Veronica

[Irulan]

Well of course he is an expert, he has expert level skills.

But the original question was from someone who is looking to get into more serious mountain biking not an expert.

My concern with a person new to mountain biking is that FS does not seem to encourage development of skills. That concern is based on personal observation of new riders who were on full suspension bikes.

Veronica

what she said, V. says is much more succintly than I managed to with my elusive/incoherent comment about sofa butt...( which is a veiled reference to static, non dymanic riding)

Doctorfrau states her budget tops out at $1400. You can bet Lopes is not riding a $1400 bike. The big difference between a $1400 hardtail and a $1400 full suspension can be anywhere from 6-8 pounds of extra bike weight, with the FS being the heavier bike at that prices level. In addition, you will get a significantly better component package on a hardtail at that price range.

Irulan.