The state of education:

[Crankin]

Ah, this thread has drifted a bit....
No, not everyone should go to college, but I sort of agree that to make it, you need some sort of technical post high school training, unless you have gone to a very good technical high school. Of course, around here, college is considered compulsory. Our state schools are woefully underfunded because most people would rather go to to a 3d rate private school for a lot more $, than say they went to a state school. A few people have just come to the realization that community colleges are actually great places to get an education or training for a career...
I went to a community college and 2 state universities. I am now getting my second grad degree at a smaller private university. I do see a difference in the type of education I am getting, compared to my master's in ed. I got at ASU, but I think it is more a function of the particular school I am going to, which is very holistically oriented. I got a great education at ASU for both my BA and MA.
As for the poor quality of the undergraduates; well, I think there was a lot of that when I went to school (in the 70s), but we saw it in different ways, since there was no technology to distract people. Other things did, like drugs and alcohol.

[ginny]

I know that most of out teachers are running a full on marathon each and every day to do the most they can for the greatest number of children. I also understand that children come from different backgrounds and that not every family values education. I am pretty sure I live in a highly educated bubble. I have never seen children attend school hungry or wearing the same clothes they slept in because they had to watch their younger siblings while mom got high. What I do know, though, is that the only way out of that mess for those children is a good education. I come from the west coast. Our state schools are great (or they were). We are a very diverse nation. How do we educate all strata? How do we ensure a better life for those who come from nothing? We ensure that early education is adequate. We ensure that higher education is accessible. 10k/yr is not accessible to a large majority of individuals in this country. If the kids wearing grubby jeans and ratty t-shirts somehow get through high school, sure they can maybe get loans to cover undergrad, but that starts young adults off in the hole. I don't know what the answer is, but it saddens me that we are pricing a higher education out of reach of those who need is most. I know.... I'm completely idealistic. Those kids probably don't want to go to college anyway, but what if there was just one who did? ... and now he/she gives up her goal because of a 32% tuition hike? -shaking head- I dunno... it just seems sad...

[Veronica]

I grew up on welfare. I was one of those kids who wore the same thing to school because I had nothing else. My mother wasn't a druggie, she worked a forty hour a week job at minimum wage, took overtime when she could. But with 4 kids at home and no child support, it was tough.

I knew I had to work hard in school and get some scholarships. I was lucky and I did. Then I decided to get married after my freshman year and transfer to a school in CA to be near my husband. Good bye scholarship. And yeah I finished school and my teaching credential owing a lot of money. I don't know why it's too hard for 20 somethings now to deal with that. That's life... We were paying off our debt into our early 30s.

Veronica

[OakLeaf]

And yeah I finished school and my teaching credential owing a lot of money. I don't know why it's too hard for 20 somethings now to deal with that. That's life... We were paying off our debt into our early 30s.

Veronica

Salaries don't even cover student loan payments any more. That's the result of the combination of the increase in loan interest, the decrease in grant money, and the decrease in real wages.

I did a refinancing and got (I think two) extensions, lived very modestly, and still the only reason my loans were paid off before I was 45 was because my second husband helped me out.

It's no wonder educated women defer motherhood... they have to pay off their loans first...

[Veronica]

Salaries don't even cover student loan payments any more. ..

That's scary. My first job paid me 20K a year and Thom's first post Marine job paid about 28K. I guess getting married young was a good thing since his income really paid off my college loans.

We had no money for extras. Our rent was $600 a month.

Veronica

[lph]

In Norway university tuition is free (well, apart from books). You get a student loan and a stipend, which together is enough to live on, frugally. Most students hold a part-time job to have a bit more than that. But the loan has very good terms, so a lot of people choose to take up the full loan. New mothers get a stipend about the size of 6 months loan, if I remember correctly, to be able to stay home with the baby. If you hold a fulltime job when you give birth you're allotted almost a year's paid leave.

Don't shoot me, I just live here.

Oh, and we also have taxes that a lot of Americans would find horrendous. I don't, I pay them willingly.

[malkin]

It's as true today as when Woody Guthrie wrote it:

California is a Garden of Eden
A paradise to live in or see,
but believe it or not,
You won't find it so hot,
If you ain't got that dough-ray-me.

[Atlas]

In Norway university tuition is free (well, apart from books). You get a student loan and a stipend, which together is enough to live on, frugally. Most students hold a part-time job to have a bit more than that. But the loan has very good terms, so a lot of people choose to take up the full loan. New mothers get a stipend about the size of 6 months loan, if I remember correctly, to be able to stay home with the baby. If you hold a fulltime job when you give birth you're allotted almost a year's paid leave.

Don't shoot me, I just live here.

Oh, and we also have taxes that a lot of Americans would find horrendous. I don't, I pay them willingly.

I tried to see if I could still claim Norwegian citizenship but I think I was one generation too many in the United States

Concerning college, there are so many angles to it. I graduate in December and I'm really happy. Tuition and books keep going up and I and I'm really anxious and nervous to find a job in this market. On the class level, there are a quite a few people who are in college because thats what their parents told them they were doing, or they didn't want to start working full time. I listen to them talk about football scores in class or how drunk they're getting that night. But there are a lot of people who are there for an education, it just took me a while to get to the upper level classes to find them. The saddest part for me is watching professors get budgets slashed and still try to maintain the same level of education. I have a class right now that we didn't get a syllabus in class because the department didn't have enough paper and we had to print it ourselves. Maybe if they cut the football coach's salary we'd be able to afford supplies where they are needed.

[Grog]

Oh, and we also have taxes that a lot of Americans would find horrendous. I don't, I pay them willingly.

I wish I could say the same. I am appalled at how the Canadian government has been cutting taxes continuously for the past 10 years, while cutting the services that the most needy among us can't live without.

I used to actively fight against this, now I just don't know what to do anymore.

[shootingstar]

Our state schools are great (or they were). We are a very diverse nation. How do we educate all strata? How do we ensure a better life for those who come from nothing? We ensure that early education is adequate. We ensure that higher education is accessible. 10k/yr is not accessible to a large majority of individuals in this country. If the kids wearing grubby jeans and ratty t-shirts somehow get through high school, sure they can maybe get loans to cover undergrad, but that starts young adults off in the hole. I don't know what the answer is, but it saddens me that we are pricing a higher education out of reach of those who need is most. I know.... I'm completely idealistic. Those kids probably don't want to go to college anyway, but what if there was just one who did? ... and now he/she gives up her goal because of a 32% tuition hike? -shaking head- I dunno... it just seems sad...

Canada has the same problem of increased college and university tuition for degree/credit programs. For past 25 years, it is norm that if a student doesn't have family to financially assist, not enough money from summer/part-time job, then it is the norm the student will acquire a sizable debt at graduation. (Just to dispell ideas that Canada is a social state in all areas of our society. Mindboggling that in Germany, university tuition was free for Germans at German universities, until approx. 5-10 yrs. ago. Even now they only pay several thousand $$ annually. I found out last year from our German ex-patriate work staff.)

However I must admit, I am amazed by the number of university students who head to tropical areas during reading vacation week for a good time. I often think: "How can they afford this?" It was a rare trend when I was university student in cold Ontario...in late 1970's to early 1980's. Meanwhile I was slugging it out at K-mart as a cashier part-time during my university years.

So glad I did my degrees back then.