The state of education:

[Veronica]

I always bristle when people talk about doing a better job in the elementary years. What would that look like?

We've been doing 20 - 1 in CA for 12 years or so now for grade K - 3. In all honesty, it hasn't made much of a difference by the time they get to me. I still have at least a third of my class who can't read at grade level and who don't know their basic facts. I have 33 fifth graders crammed into my classroom. Would smaller class sizes for longer make a difference? Fourth grade is when they are expected to start learning from their reading and that's when class size jumps up by ten - fourteen kids. But it all costs money and there's no money to be had now.

What do we teachers do with those kids who impinge on the learning of others with their emotional baggage that they are bringing from home? What do we do with those kids who don't eat breakfast? Who arrive late every day? Who have no place to do their homework? Who are expected to babysit younger siblings after school so they can't do their homework? What about the kids with ADD who are a constant distraction to their peers? Or the ones with Oppositional Defiant Disorder who will scream at you if you look at them funny? Or the first grader who tells his teacher to F--- off? All that and more happens at my school and I'm at one of the better schools in my town.

So, come on, tell me what I should be doing differently so that we would have a better elementary education system. How would you fix it?

Veronica

[OakLeaf]

I was afraid you'd take that wrong.

To be clear, I didn't mean anything about any individual teacher. Obviously there are systems and individuals all along the continuum, but the majority of teachers are doing the best you can with what you're given, in a job that's hugely underappreciated.

It's "what you're given" and "underappreciated" that I have a big problem with. IMO there needs to be systemic change in the whole way that children are raised/educated in this country. And the way all economic "nonproducers," which includes children, stay-at-home parents, those with severe disabilities, and the retired - need to be treated. But there we delve into politics....

[Veronica]

I was afraid you'd take that wrong.

LOL You knew I'd launch into a tirade. I'm good.

Personally I think no one should be allowed to have children until he/she has passed my test, because it all starts at home. I haven't worked out the details on the test yet...


Veronica

[Dogmama]

LOL You knew I'd launch into a tirade. I'm good.

Personally I think no one should be allowed to have children until he/she has passed my test, because it all starts at home. I haven't worked out the details on the test yet...


Veronica

Ooooo - can I help? Please? Can I? Please?

My DH's grandson threatened one of his high school teachers with, "I know where you park your car." Result? Two day suspension. Holy crap, Batman! A few months later he was caught by a cop pointing a gun (BB, but still) out of a car at somebody else. Result? One page essay about how that was wrong (handed down by a judge!!)

Now, with crappy grades, a worse attitude and an alcohol problem his mother is buying him a VAN! Yup - guess he's been a good kid. Oh, and he threatened her too with, "You have to sleep sometime."

So, when he goes to school, we expect him to be an angel?

Friend of mine is a school counselor. She tells me about kids who miss school because they have to meet their parent's drug dealers & exchange money. The parents are cooking meth at home. The kids come into school with the same clothes, no breakfast, no homework & no sleep. This is at a lower-middle income area. It isn't June Cleaver's house but it isn't the absolute pits.

[Crankin]

Ah, this thread has drifted a bit....
No, not everyone should go to college, but I sort of agree that to make it, you need some sort of technical post high school training, unless you have gone to a very good technical high school. Of course, around here, college is considered compulsory. Our state schools are woefully underfunded because most people would rather go to to a 3d rate private school for a lot more $, than say they went to a state school. A few people have just come to the realization that community colleges are actually great places to get an education or training for a career...
I went to a community college and 2 state universities. I am now getting my second grad degree at a smaller private university. I do see a difference in the type of education I am getting, compared to my master's in ed. I got at ASU, but I think it is more a function of the particular school I am going to, which is very holistically oriented. I got a great education at ASU for both my BA and MA.
As for the poor quality of the undergraduates; well, I think there was a lot of that when I went to school (in the 70s), but we saw it in different ways, since there was no technology to distract people. Other things did, like drugs and alcohol.

[ginny]

I know that most of out teachers are running a full on marathon each and every day to do the most they can for the greatest number of children. I also understand that children come from different backgrounds and that not every family values education. I am pretty sure I live in a highly educated bubble. I have never seen children attend school hungry or wearing the same clothes they slept in because they had to watch their younger siblings while mom got high. What I do know, though, is that the only way out of that mess for those children is a good education. I come from the west coast. Our state schools are great (or they were). We are a very diverse nation. How do we educate all strata? How do we ensure a better life for those who come from nothing? We ensure that early education is adequate. We ensure that higher education is accessible. 10k/yr is not accessible to a large majority of individuals in this country. If the kids wearing grubby jeans and ratty t-shirts somehow get through high school, sure they can maybe get loans to cover undergrad, but that starts young adults off in the hole. I don't know what the answer is, but it saddens me that we are pricing a higher education out of reach of those who need is most. I know.... I'm completely idealistic. Those kids probably don't want to go to college anyway, but what if there was just one who did? ... and now he/she gives up her goal because of a 32% tuition hike? -shaking head- I dunno... it just seems sad...

[Veronica]

I grew up on welfare. I was one of those kids who wore the same thing to school because I had nothing else. My mother wasn't a druggie, she worked a forty hour a week job at minimum wage, took overtime when she could. But with 4 kids at home and no child support, it was tough.

I knew I had to work hard in school and get some scholarships. I was lucky and I did. Then I decided to get married after my freshman year and transfer to a school in CA to be near my husband. Good bye scholarship. And yeah I finished school and my teaching credential owing a lot of money. I don't know why it's too hard for 20 somethings now to deal with that. That's life... We were paying off our debt into our early 30s.

Veronica

[shootingstar]

Our state schools are great (or they were). We are a very diverse nation. How do we educate all strata? How do we ensure a better life for those who come from nothing? We ensure that early education is adequate. We ensure that higher education is accessible. 10k/yr is not accessible to a large majority of individuals in this country. If the kids wearing grubby jeans and ratty t-shirts somehow get through high school, sure they can maybe get loans to cover undergrad, but that starts young adults off in the hole. I don't know what the answer is, but it saddens me that we are pricing a higher education out of reach of those who need is most. I know.... I'm completely idealistic. Those kids probably don't want to go to college anyway, but what if there was just one who did? ... and now he/she gives up her goal because of a 32% tuition hike? -shaking head- I dunno... it just seems sad...

Canada has the same problem of increased college and university tuition for degree/credit programs. For past 25 years, it is norm that if a student doesn't have family to financially assist, not enough money from summer/part-time job, then it is the norm the student will acquire a sizable debt at graduation. (Just to dispell ideas that Canada is a social state in all areas of our society. Mindboggling that in Germany, university tuition was free for Germans at German universities, until approx. 5-10 yrs. ago. Even now they only pay several thousand $$ annually. I found out last year from our German ex-patriate work staff.)

However I must admit, I am amazed by the number of university students who head to tropical areas during reading vacation week for a good time. I often think: "How can they afford this?" It was a rare trend when I was university student in cold Ontario...in late 1970's to early 1980's. Meanwhile I was slugging it out at K-mart as a cashier part-time during my university years.

So glad I did my degrees back then.

[Trek420]

Or the ones with Oppositional Defiant Disorder who will scream at you if you look at them funny?

I'm sorry, this is a disorder with an acronym and maybe a charity road ride to find a cure now? This is as opposed to just an out of control kid that needs whatever one does with an out of control kid?

Like duct tape maybe?

I'd like to see the test, V. Will it be multiple choice? Pass/fail? Graded on a curve?

It starts at home. But V and all our TE teachers you make a big difference. Thanks.

OK, first question:

You come home from a hard day at the meth lab. Your toddler says "Mommy, Daddy read to me again, please!" Do you:
a) sit with your child and read showing that you value reading and time with them, creating memories of reading together.
b) say "not now, I have to drink a 6 pack first. Here, watch some TV"
c) say "read to you? I can't read"