Anxiety vs Insomnia

[solobiker]

I am not really sure where to start but I will try. Have had significant periods of insomnia for over 2 years. What I mean by insomnia is I usually sleep well or okay 2 out of 7 nights of each week. The other nights I usually fall asleep around 1030ish and wake up around 2 and can't fall back asleep mainly due to stress(I think). I get up for work around 530. I have switched jobs thinking that that would help and initally it did, but I am back to many sleepless nights. In the past I have tried to talk with someone but that did not work. I am very hesitant to take any prescription drugs. I have tried many natural supplements without success and have tried the OTC sleep aides which also has not helped. I guess what I would like to know is if there is anyone who has tried medication for insomnia and how there body has reacted. I know everyone is different. I am just curious. I do have an appointment with my Dr on Monday to discuss this. I am wondering if it may be PMDD..who knows. I just would like to sleep again.

[tulip]

Ideally, it would be good to get at the root of the anxiety. Just because you tried counseling once and it didn't work does not mean that it is a bad idea. Talk to your doctor, but not only about meds. Please reconsider counseling. Best to you.

EDIT: I find that yoga is very good at helping me sleep through the night, although I don't often have the problem of insomnia. But yoga would probably be beneficial as one part of the whole strategy.

[Onix]

Hi Solobiker,
I feel your pain. I have struggled with insomnia before, and it is not fun at all. I am also in social work grad school and have all kinds of ideas/suggestions for you if you want to talk further about any of this stuff---shoot me a PM.

I'm pro-therapy as well. But, I think everyone should go/could benefit from therapy. Sometimes it takes a while to find the right therapist. And, sometimes, when people try to go to therapy before they are "ready" it can be really challenging too. So many elements go into therapy "working" or "not."

Anyway...if you came into my office... I would ask about: (Maybe this could be helpful just to generate things for you to think about?? Or, if you want to talk more later...)

-what have you tried before for your insomnia? Have you found anything to be particularly helpful? Anything that makes the insomnia particularly worse?

-can you identify any common themes in the days/evenings that you do sleep well? What about those in which you struggle with your sleep?

-what do you do when you wake up at two and can't fall back to sleep?

-what lets you know that it is stress that is keeping you up/keeping you from falling back to sleep?

-what does that time of waking up/being stressed/not being able to fall asleep look like to you?

-Do you feel these stress feelings any other time in your day?

-are there common themes about what you are thinking about during this middle-of-the-night stress time?

-how would you know that you had overcome this problem?

- tell me about a normal day for you all the way from when you wake up to going to bed.

-what keeps this problem from being worse than it already is?

-If you feel stressed during the day, what do you do? Is this helpful?

-How does this lack of sleep affect your day-time life?

-Can you identify anything that changed or may have "set this off" two years ago when this started?

-What else in your life has changed because of this?

-Tell me more about your hesitancy to take prescription drugs.

-etc. etc. depending on the answers


I don't expect you to answer all of these questions or anything in the thread...I am just trying to be supportive/identify things for you to think about that may help you isolate the problem/notice a pattern or something of the sorts

There are so many elements that often go into insomnia. And, there are lots and lots of different types of interventions. (Behavioral, environmental, medication, therapeutic etc. etc.) Often, people find a combination of these approaches helpful depending on how the difficulty ends up being identified/diagnosed. (i.e. could it be a lifestyle issue? is it related to an anxiety disorder? An adjustment disorder? A biological component? A hormonal component? a thyroid issue? depression? Some other psychiatric/clinical/medical issue?).

I think it is great that you are going to see your doctor. Whether or not you want to see a therapist or some other "helping professional", a doctor is a good place to start. If the issue is not solely medical, then it may be challenging for you to find a 100% fix with a solely medical approach. Most therapists would want to ensure that you ruled out any medical/health issues if you came in presenting with this problem to their office regardless.

On a more personal note, I have tried medication for insomnia. My insomnia has largely subsided, (save a random tossy-turny night every few months). I have tried LOTS of different things. I imagine you will discuss all of this with your doctor...but there are lots of different types of sleeping drugs.

Ex: Ambien is a "short-acting," "fast-acting" drug that you take just before crawling into bed. (If you take it and stay out of bed for a long time after, it can cause hallucinations etc.) Ambien pretty much knocks you out hard. It may not solve your problems (since you seem to be able to fall asleep well?? and then wake up?) But, anyway, Ambien then wears off after 5-6? hours I believe. ((I'm not a doctor---so this is all just off memory...def. talk to your doc!)) Ambien is also something you don't have to take daily--just when you need/want. (It is also a controlled substance) (I have taken this)


Whereas, something like trazadone is a slower-longer-lasting medication ( think it may actually be a muscle relaxer??). (I'm sure there are major classes these medications fit into--but medication isn't my speciality... talking about it, issues around it, taking it, lifestyle and such is..but not the medication itself )

Certain medications can make you feel kind of "hung-over" in the morning. This can often be tweaked by changing dosage. It may take a bit to find a medication that works well for you if you want to go that route. What natural supplements have you tried?

So...I feel like I'm super rambling right now. But, I hope that maybe a bit of this was helpful? Feel free to PM me if you want me to direct you to some more resources pertaining to sleep issues or talk more. Or if you want some ideas to try or whatnot.

Good luck friend! I hope you find better sleep soon

[lph]

thanks for a great post, Onix. There are more of us out here struggling with sleep issues at times, and you brought up lots of good points to think about.

[shootingstar]

If at all possible, solobiker, seek some counselling first to talk things through. Drugs will simply may simply mask root causes which seem to be hanging around for you in last few years.

Like you, I resist taking oral drugs. (actually taking iron supplements was the first thing I took orally in decade except for taking Tyelonol twice for fever/headache.). I know for myself personally if I suppress major "truths" about a personal situtation/stresses and deny such problems, it manifests in major problems in: feeling sleepy during the day...and not sleeping well at night. Deep "truth-seeking" from within myself, helped me over time. But it exhausted me for a few months by living in denial...this has happened twice in life so far. lst time I sought counselling for a year when I was university student decades ago. Thank God...and it gave me insight to help myself much later in life. It is invaluble help....this is what an excellent counsellor can do for you.

[Onix]

No problem.

I know what a pain it can be to have sleep problems.

Also, remember that your body DOES know how to sleep solidly and through the night.

I think with something like insomnia that is often so pervasive in our lives, we can become very "problem saturated" in our view of it (and understandingly so). Insomnia is such a miserable thing, and feels so controlling of our lives that it is often very natural to jump to the "what is wrong with me, this is so awful, i feel like i am helpless" tract.

I think for most people, the inner strength, resources, and ability to solve all kinds of our problems lies within us. Thus, it just becomes a matter of finding that, pulling it out, and embracing it. (Therapy can be very helpful for this-for both problem identification, identification of contributing factors, and honing in on your skills to overcome).

With all of this, I think that reframing can often be helpful. (It won't fix things immediately...but it turns us from a "problem saturated" orientation to a "solution focused" orientation. Just remember that you do have "access" to the solution because you/your body DO know how to sleep through the night.

This would include thinking about things like:

-the fact that your body does know how to sleep through the night---thus you can harness this ability further. You already have the resource and capability--it just needs some finding! (often lighter than "oh god, i can't do this"

- What is it in you that keeps you from having 7 bad nights of sleep? How do you manage that?

-The fact that you are seeking help for yourself is significant. It suggests resourcefulness, strength, courage and persistence.

-do you sometimes successfully manage your stress? Awesome. Is there a way to introduce more of these techniques/skills into your life?

etc. etc.


In response to shooting star's quote: "Drugs will simply may simply mask root causes which seem to be hanging around for you in last few years."


--While I totally agree that drugs can serve as a crutch for some people in their therapeutic work (mostly for people who take drugs for a psychological issue, and then fail to receive accompanying psychological therapy work). But, for some people, brain chemistry imbalance is a very real thing. I think when used appropriately drugs MAY be a helpful aid. It really depends on the person/how they are being managed/used/for what etc. I totally relate to your resistance to putting altering chemicals in your body. This can raise all kinds of questions (but then is it really me? What does this mean about dependence? etc.) But, without knowing a lot more about the situation (and without being a doc to rule out medical issues).... it is hard for me to rule it out as an option entirely. But, for most people...it isn't a life-long option. So, yes...finding other underlying roots etc. will most likely be important.

[solobiker]

Thanks for the posts and support. As I said I really don't want to take medication for this as to me it is a "crutch" for the situation not really a cure. I typically sleep well on weekends when I don't have to go to work or when I am on vacation. I don't think my anxiety is a chemical imbalance, I just tend to worry and stress a lot. I am nervous my Dr may try to put me on meidcation which I most likely will decline. As for counseling...I tend to be a very shy person and will be very uncomfortable in a situation like that. I do not like any attention placed on me or "help" because to me then I failed in someway and have a weakness that nobody else has that I know of. It is hard to explain. When ever I am not completely occupied my mind goes to work and and my mind goes right to the negative aspects or the what ifs...kind of a pain. I am trying very hard for this not to happen but it just does.

[solobiker]

I have gotten to the point where it stresses me out come Sunday/Monday night the I most likley will not sleep. I am tired during the day so after work I will come home and try to take a nap. As soon as I lie down I wake right up. It is rather frustrating. Sorry for being the resident complainer...it is just getting real old and dissapointing.

[lph]

I have bouts of ... not real insomnia, in that I rarely wake up and can't get back to sleep... more like long periods where I have trouble falling asleep, sleep lightly and restlessly, and wake up "too fast" feeling unrested, often with a hectic heartrate at the first "morning sound". This is stress-related, but funnily enough if I'm really overworked I'll usually sleep better because I get very tired, and a bit down and depressed. On vacation I can feel myself relaxing to a much deeper level, and suddenly sleeping 9 hours every night and waking up from a very sound sleep.

It almost feels like I have trouble getting my energy cycles to match the day, they're there but don't run on a daily schedule. I can either gear myself up, get lots done, bike a lot, but not sleep much, or I can slouch around, be slow and inefficient, but get lots of sleep. Puzzling. It's mostly a problem if it coincides with emotional stress, because then I get weepy/upset/angry very easily.

I have considered both drugs, yoga/meditation and therapy, but so far have handled this ok with regular meals, regular bedtime, and trying to be ahead of stuff at work and in sync with friends and family. Don't know if any of this sounds familiar. It sounds like you have it rough. But I think the point about really believing you have the resources to fix it yourself is a good one. I try to tell myself after a bad night - hey, it's just a bad night. Yes, you'll be a bit out of it. But that "despair" you're feeling isn't real, it's the lack of sleep inflating your emotions, and it will go away.

btw I was very against medication until I read up a bit. Apparently medication to help you fall asleep can be used just passingly to help retrain your sleep habits.

[Crankin]

I can't add much to what Onix said. I am also another counselor in training who has had bouts with insomnia. I have never been a good sleeper, didn't nap as a kid and generally never been someone who sleeps the recommended 8 hours. If I get 7, it's a lot. Waking up at 5 has been routine for me for years.
The waking up in the middle of the night as you describe is definitely related to anxiety. But, it becomes a vicious cycle because you start worrying about not sleeping, which increases whatever anxiety was there.
What helped me was acupuncture, yoga, and decreasing my coffee intake for awhile (I have since resumed my one vile habit). For a couple of months I took a medication that was not for sleep per se, but it had the added side effect of helping me sleep, as I took it at night so the "sleepiness" would not affect my daily activities. However, my normal sleep had pretty much returned at this point. One thing I found that during this time, if I did really hard endurance exercise, it made the problem worse. But, moderate exercise, like walking, slower cycling, and hiking helped.
I am not against medication, either. Sleep medications can be used for a short time as others have said. And +1 on finding a good counselor. It might take more than one try.

[shootingstar]

I just tend to worry and stress a lot. I am nervous my Dr may try to put me on meidcation which I most likely will decline. As for counseling...I tend to be a very shy person and will be very uncomfortable in a situation like that. I do not like any attention placed on me or "help" because to me then I failed in someway and have a weakness that nobody else has that I know of. It is hard to explain. When ever I am not completely occupied my mind goes to work and and my mind goes right to the negative aspects or the what ifs...kind of a pain. I am trying very hard for this not to happen but it just does.

It is really hard to name, to articulate in words and cohert sentences, one's greatest fears and weaknesses. Then once it's identified, that lump of negativity seems so huge. And it IS huge and can be energy-sucking just thinking about it..takes time to chip away at the problem(s), find solutions and talk it out with someone who is there beside you on the journey.

Meanwhile, hope you keep ridin' the bike.

[Onix]

btw I was very against medication until I read up a bit. Apparently medication to help you fall asleep can be used just passingly to help retrain your sleep habits.

Interesting. Thanks for pointing this point out!

[Onix]

I know I PMed you..but I didn't read this first

The doctor definitely can't *make* you take any medication. But, he/she may be able to give you some more information about options, which will most likely include medication. I am curious though---it sounds like it is really difficult for you to talk to a therapist about what is going on...I am wondering what makes going to a doctor to talk about it easier (especially since you don't seem to want what he/she probably has to give ((i.e. medicine)). Does it feel safer because doc may not want you to dive into the emotional aspect of this?

And, I know you don't know me...but...oh lord.... I have all kinds of life-difficulties

I really truly believe that although a lot of people don't talk about them, everyone is struggling with certain things and suffering in some areas. I just think that is humanity. We are imperfect, raw human beings. Our imperfection is beautiful...and often painful. Isolation can be especially compounding in this area when people aren't talking about the reality of our lives that includes our stresses and struggles. ((This makes me think of postsecret.com you ladies should check it out if you haven't! ---people coming together in their rawness and humanity)).

Really, I just want to validate your feelings, but also try to normalize the fact that a lot of people struggle with sleep problems and all kinds of other problems. It is so easy to believe that everyone else has everything together and is super happy (especially based on the happy-ever-after story lines all over the media). But, I think everyone is a little messy. And, its in that messyness that ultimately I think we find each other in the most intimate ways.

I once heard a parable....that if you imagine all of the people on earth as wells (like the water kind)....the deepness in the well represents the deepness of the person's innermost thoughts (i.e. all of our most secret feelings are the deepest in the well, while the top by the grass is our "surface selves". And, interestingly...the place where wells come together...and share their water (the deep feelings water) is deep deep deep deep down . Just like people

I gotta run...but smiles all around

[beccaB]

Could you have an undiagnosed sleep disorder? Maybe your doctor should have you participate in a sleep study. When my husband did that he had to spend a night in the hospital and they studied the way he slept. He had to be woken up periodically and electrodes were stuck to him to measure certain patterns. They couldn't find anything at that time though.

[shootingstar]

Could you have an undiagnosed sleep disorder? Maybe your doctor should have you participate in a sleep study. When my husband did that he had to spend a night in the hospital and they studied the way he slept. He had to be woken up periodically and electrodes were stuck to him to measure certain patterns. They couldn't find anything at that time though.

My partner had this testing at a specialized sleep disorder testing lab at hospital. He has had sleep disorder since his 20's. He has never really felt truly rested from sleep. He is mildly narcopleptic and has tried prescribed daily drugs...which he no longer takes. It didn't make him feel well for rest of day and since it would have been a drug for the rest of his life, he didn't want his body to become addicted to it. This drug was to keep him awake during the day. It still didn't help him sleep better at night, though it was to help stabilize sleeping patterns.

His disorder causes him to fall asleep at theatres, driving, etc.
there is a real reason why he no longer owns a car..this is 1 of the major reasons. Driving after 1 hr., he needs to stop and nap. I don't mind.

And yes, cycling is very helpful to him to "stay awake" during day, as well as a transportation mode. His sleep disorder is compounded by tinnitus (ringing of ears) and high sensitivity to air pressure/weather changes leading to headaches. He seldom takes Tyelonol for headaches. He doesn't see the point when barometric changes is the cause. There is no drug to solve this. Sometimes I don't even know he's experiencing all of this...he's used to it that he isn't always signalling/complaining to me.

Solo's problem sounds as if she can at least isolate when insomnia occurs.