doggy question

[badger]

So I picked up the new foster dog last night. I have yet to have her pee/poo while on leash, and it's kind of important for her to do so to find a home. (she's been peeing on my patio thus far, but I really want to discourage her from doing that).

I've taken her on an hour long walk last night, and did nothing. I finally brought her home and my dumb cat attacked her and she ended up urinating everywhere.

She's obviously never been walked much on a leash and prefers to be out in the yard to do her business. Any ideas how I would get her to do her toileting out during our walk? She does seem to be house broken, and she does take a lot of interest in sniffing where other dogs have peed but so far no peeing from her.

[TsPoet]

Many dogs won't eliminate on leash if they aren't used to it. I've babysat friends dogs who wouldn't go on our nightly walks. Usually by the end of the week, they are going just fine. I think they just don't know what to expect.
Take her somewhere that has been well-used by other dogs. If you can find an errant pile and let her sniff and wander around that would be great. Even female dogs will mark, so take her to a bush or something that you know other dogs frequent.

As far as peeing after the cat harassed her be very very careful you do not correct her for this - it is submissive peeing, so if you correct her you are actually reinforcing the submissiveness.

[badger]

I ignored her altogether while/after she peed. I knew it wasn't an "accident", but more out of fear.

She did poo when I went home for lunch. I'm hopeful she'll start peeing on her own soon. She's much better today. Still avoids the cat with a ten foot pole, but at least she's not petrified like she was yesterday.

She's ALL OVER on the leash, though. It's so obvious she was never really walked on a leash, or walked at all for that matter.

[indigoiis]

This takes a whole day, but it works.

Make sure you have a crate. If you don't have a crate, you need to gate off a very small area in your kitchen or laundry.

When pup gets up, feed and water.

Put pup on leash, take outside to where you want her to poop. This should be the same area every time you go out. No fun walk until she poops and pees. If she doesn't go, wait a couple of minutes, and go back inside. Put her in the crate or gated area.

Ten minutes later, try it again.

Do this over and over until evenutally, she will go. You can use language like, "go potty" or "do your biz" and when she does it, say, "good go potty!" or whatever language you decide, just letting her know that it's good. If she goes to the bathroom, THEN take her for her fun / play walk. And when she goes back inside with you, she can be free in your house to hang out.

One really important thing - she should sleep in this gated off area or crate each night. Use language like, "bedtime!" or "go to bed now!" in a high, happy voice, and put her in the crate or gated area. If she barks, turn out the light, turn on a radio, and go to bed. A couple of nights and she should be fine.

Routine is key. Keep taking her to the same spot, keep using the same language. Only feed once a day and don't leave her food down. After she "gets" that her potty location is the place to go, you can then bring her there when YOU want her to poop (i.e., after work, before bed, early morning) and she will go (at least pee.)

It has worked for five of my dogs for the past fifteen years... so all I can say is try it!

[MartianDestiny]

Routine is key. Keep taking her to the same spot, keep using the same language. Only feed once a day and don't leave her food down.

I totally agree routine is key and also agree with not leaving food down. However, only feeding once a day can be DEADLY! Especially in medium to large breed dogs that have a higher likelihood of bloating. Even more so in a dog that may have been food deprived or had to fight for food (and without a history on a rescue dog you just don't know). They'll tend to inhale/gorge on their food not knowing if it will go away or if they'll get more and it can lead to all sorts of issues.

Indigoiis' technique is good, and should work, but I'd definitely modify it to include feeding twice, if not three times a day.

[badger]

thanks for all the hints!

I think part of her problem is fear. I have been taking her out in the alleyway where I want her to do her toileting so I can take her elsewhere for her "fun" walk, but I think any walk at this point is terrifying for her. It doesn't help that I live in a very urban area with high traffic.

I'll try the every ten minute thing tomorrow when I'm home all day.

Thankfully she's good in a crate and she slept all night without any incidence. I've been feeding her in her crate and giving her treats when she goes in to make her realize the crate is her good place rather than a bad one. And most importantly, she's safe from the cat in the crate!

I have her with me at work right now, and she's great in that she's very quiet, but she sure is fearful of everyone, especially men. Plenty of socialization is required for this girl!

[tc1]

Go out in the yard with her when she pees. Praise her, and the pee, and blot some up with a paper towel. Put the towel in a baggie. Go out without her to the end of the driveway, or wherever you want her to go and drop the towel. Get the dog, have her find the towel and praise her. Sounds weird but it usually works.

Yeah, you do have to handle a pee soaked towel. But you will be handling a lot more of them if she doesn't get this.

[badger]

she's peed on leash, finally, but the girl does not pee much at all. One day she went for 14 hours without peeing!! So far she's never had an accident, and she does give this weird "groan" when she needs to go out.

She's VERY timid, though. She was all over the leash when I first got her, and while she's getting better, she still has a tendency to go ape-poo when she encounters a situation that scares her. I've not cooed or petted or tried to soothe her when she does this as I don't want to reinforce the behaviour. I'm praising her when she does walk without pulling, but inevitably she ends up pulling to the point she's coughing.

I'm not sure she's ready for a halti at this point. That might scare her more and I just want to increase her confidence for now. She's afraid of everyone, especially men. I've had guy friends get down on the floor with her with their bodies turned to the side and not making eye contact. I even had them tempt her with turkey, but she just grabs the meat and runs away.

To make things a bit more difficult, she's not food motivated. She likes turkey, yes, but conventional treats she turns her nose up. Praising her like mad when she does something good is about all I've been able to give her at this point.

[NbyNW]

Badger, just want to send encouragement and props for what you are doing to foster this dog. I'm sure your efforts will pay off greatly for her in the long run!

We adopted our dog in April after he had been in foster care for some time, and it has become apparent that his foster parents did a lot of work to get him ready for adoption. And I can appreciate that it's no small amount of problem solving and attention and care.

I might try a variation on indigoiis' advice, since our little guy is also not great eliminating on leash, especially since we are currently undergoing a big transition and cannot always stick to our routines.

MD: re feeding, our guy was food deprived when he was found, and was inhaling his food, and while it didn't seem to bother him we did want to slow him down. We got this big metal ball at Petco that sits in his dish and he has to eat around it. It does seem to help, except that on occasion we have placed his dish in a corner and he figured out that he can shove the ball out of the bowl.

[tulip]

Keep in mind that it's a long road. While you might see incremental changes in the short term, dogs with bad histories need alot of time to regain confidence and lose fear. Many of them, never will be the happy-go-lucky dogs that we always think of and want them to be.

I've had Shiloh for nearly a year. He's getting so much better, but he's still very wary of strangers. It's going to take alot of patience and consistency. Keep at it, you're doing a good job.

If she's not peeing much despite drinking water, you might want to have her checked out by a vet.

[jusdooit]

Just a bog thank you for your efforts. I had a dog with a similar background who as fine if nothing changed. If even one thing had been moved she was panic stricken. It took years to resolve most of her issues. Good luck!

[badger]

I have another question. Maybe I've screwed things up, but I'm still new at "training" dogs, so I need some pointers.

I find that with all my fosters, they are good in a crate for a day or two, then they seem to bond with me and want to be near me all the time and don't do well being confined in a crate.

Mandy's now sleeping on her little bed by the foot of my bed, and she's left free while I'm not home (she's good). But I'm thinking she might be better off being crate trained (is it? or do I need to not worry as she's already good on her own?).

Any advice on if I need to crate train her, and if so, how to do it without causing undue stress on all of us? (she scratched at the metal door of the crate which made it impossible for me to sleep).

[NbyNW]

There's a lot of resources out there about crate training but I haven't had a ton of luck with it . . . or maybe I'm just a softy!

I don't know how critical it is that Mandy be crate-trained, if she's fine and you're fine with her being able to roam. Being crate-trained or not may be a factor as to whether or not she's a good fit for potential adopters.

I can share a bit of personal experience to illustrate, which may or may not be helpful:

Our dog Gordy is okay but not great in his crate, and that may have something to do with the fact that he had been tied up and abandoned for a time before he was rescued. My guess is that he feels that being in his crate is another kind of restraint that he is not comfortable with.

Gordy was crate trained by his foster family, but he doesn't LOVE being in his crate. His foster mom said that he stayed in his crate while she was at work, but it wasn't his favorite thing.

When we first brought Gordy home, DH was adamant that we not use a crate with Gordy. His experience with his dogs growing up was that you did not put your dog in a crate. But we started to notice that Gordy seemed to be most comfortable in some of the more enclosed spaces in our home -- under tables, at the end of a hallway, in a corner, etc. Plus since we travel a fair amount and some dog-friendly hotels like for you to have a crate, we decided to give a crate a try.

It took almost a week for Gordy to get comfortable with his crate -- I would put his bed and some of his toys in it during the day in the same room as my home office. He would check it out, walk through it, but not stay in it. When he lay down in it on his own I gave him a treat. A few nights later he just went to sleep in his crate before I had a chance to move his bed back to its usual spot, and so that's how he has slept ever since. He sleeps in his crate with the door open, but he wants to be able to come and go as he pleases.

Sometimes I need him to be in his crate with the door closed, like when someone comes to fix/install things at the house (he doesn't like it when strangers are at the house, but that's another issue), or I need to work for a period of time without distraction. I can get him to stay happily in his crate with a Kong that's stuffed with peanut butter and cookies and frozen. I'll close the door to his crate with the Kong in it so that he begs to be let in! Then he'll be busy with the Kong for the better part of an hour. When he's done he'll start to scratch at the crate and beg to be let out.

He may never be totally at ease in his crate with the door closed, and we've decided we're okay with that. The only down side is that he sometimes tracks dirt up onto the couch. I'm looking at some furniture covers to try to keep the furniture from getting too dirty.

One of our local doggy daycares offers a "crate games" class that I think we might sign up for, after we're a bit more settled. It may make a difference, it may not.

I guess to sum up -- every dog is different, and every dog-owner relationship is different and evolving. Maybe since you are fostering Mandy and you may not know how long she'll be with you, you just work on what you can with her. (Sorry this was so long!)

[badger]

thanks for the input, NbyNW. I do wish that she would be more curious and comfortable with her crate. I do feed her in it, hoping she would associate it with good things, but as soon as she's done, she jumps out and never looks back.

Actually, my cat sleeps in the crate!

My feeling is that from what I gather, she was abandoned as a 2day old puppy outside a private shelter in Taiwan. They bottle fed her, but with 600 dogs, she was probably in a kennel all the time, not being socialized well. Adding insult to injury, she had to be in the crate for almost 24 hours during travel from Taiwan to Vancouver, so I'm sure she doesn't have good feelings associated with the inside of a crate.

I do think that being crate trained they're more appealing for adoption, but she really is very quiet and calm inside the house. Whenever I come home, She comes out from the bedroom where she's sleeping on her bed. She's obviously most comfortable in my bedroom.

If she was food motivated, things would be a lot easier, but she isn't. I know she'll be okay in the crate while I'm at work, but I'm sure it will stress her out. The time I would like for her to be crated is at night so I can sleep, but as it is, she'll scratch at the metal door creating quite a bit of ruckus, and she's starting to whine as well, so it makes for fitful sleeping.

To make matters worse, her presence is a bit of a threat to my cat, so he insists on sleeping ON TOP of me to claim me as his territory - all 19lbs of purring blubber!!