Calorie deprivation - how bad is it really?

[ny biker]

If you want to lose weight, you don't get a reward just because you knocked out a long ride. Eat a good breakfast, and bring a gel or two, and an apple or banana for afterwards.

If I'm doing a 50-mile ride,a gel or two won't even get me through the ride itself. I would need at least 500 calories during that ride, probably more to avoid bonking. And a piece of fruit afterwards is not enough for recovery.

Roxy, you're probably overwhelmed with information here, but if you can stand one more recommendation, I highly recommend Nancy Clark's Sports Nutrition Guide Book. http://www.nancyclarkrd.com/books/sportsnutrition.asp

[Dogmama]

Depends. Overweight people who just begin exercising bonk easier because they are unable to access fat stores. Fat needs carbs to burn in the Krebs cycle. It's a balance, though, and that's where a nutritionist & a personal trainer can really help. You don't want to scarf down a dozen donuts & ride for ten minutes.

LSD rides (long slow duration) use more fat because the Krebs cycle (where fat is burned) takes awhile. Faster rides at a higher heart rate use more carbs, generally. So, should overweight people do only LSD rides? No. It's the calories in vs calories out equation, for the most part.

Until recently, we thought that intervals burned more fat due to the afterburn effect (the time it takes for your body to return to stasis.) Turns out, the afterburn effect is minimal and intervals often lead to injuries. Intervals do provide variety, though, so they aren't all bad.

There you are. More information than you wanted, probably. I love to talk about personal training.

[channlluv]

My brain is going to explode.

I'm going to order the sports nutrition book as soon as I get home. I hope it will explain this Krebs cycle.

Okay, so the "trainer" at the Y took in my appearance and read the info sheet I'd filled out and started talking about watching my diet, avoid potatoes and pasta...same old stuff I hear from well-meaning friends who don't know me well. She recommended Weight Watchers. She also recommended I change doctors, or at least try hers because my doctor is missing something if I'm not losing weight, probably a low-performing thyroid, even though I told her I always test normal. Basically, she made a lot of assumptions based on her personal experiences.

I already know how to work the cardio machines, so she skipped that and took me to the Strive machines and explained how they worked, but I didn't get to work out at all. What a wasted afternoon.

Later, I stopped by a special swim store and bought a swim cap and new goggles. I'll work out tomorrow.

Roxy

[tribogota]

I challenged a good friend of mine who weighs the same as you to do a tri with me two years ago, she got to choose the tri, where and when...bought a bike, joined the y, swam, etc. DID the tri and then a few more, which was hard carrying the weight. Decided to get pregnant this year (39, last chance-ish) and did all the testing with her doctor, still weighs 220. She is in PERFECT health, in every way, good cholesterol, thyroid, sugars, everything they test, plus all the hormonal, endicronal etc. tests for getting pregnant. She has finally decided that ok, yes she would like to "look" thinner so that she could be "more attractive" in the eyes of society and therefore "feel" better about herself, but she is strong, healthy and athletic so, she is gonna "live" with that, as in be happy with that, and if, along the way, she loses more weight since she generally changed her eating and training habits, well great, but no more anxiety and no more calorie counting. And the dissipation of the anxiety and stress over her weight might have helped her! she got pregnant on the first try (artificial insemination)!

[channlluv]

I challenged a good friend of mine who weighs the same as you to do a tri with me two years ago, she got to choose the tri, where and when...bought a bike, joined the y, swam, etc. DID the tri and then a few more, which was hard carrying the weight. Decided to get pregnant this year (39, last chance-ish) and did all the testing with her doctor, still weighs 220. She is in PERFECT health, in every way, good cholesterol, thyroid, sugars, everything they test, plus all the hormonal, endicronal etc. tests for getting pregnant. She has finally decided that ok, yes she would like to "look" thinner so that she could be "more attractive" in the eyes of society and therefore "feel" better about herself, but she is strong, healthy and athletic so, she is gonna "live" with that, as in be happy with that, and if, along the way, she loses more weight since she generally changed her eating and training habits, well great, but no more anxiety and no more calorie counting. And the dissipation of the anxiety and stress over her weight might have helped her! she got pregnant on the first try (artificial insemination)!

Tri, congratulations to your friend. I hope her pregnancy goes really smoothly. And what a healthy outlook on her body. I think I'm getting there. Slowly but surely, anyway. Not every day, but most days I feel pretty good about myself. (And then, like today, I catch a glimpse of myself sideways in a mirror - ack!)

It's good incentive to get back on my bike, though.

I'm really going to work on achieving this Krebs cycle fat burning state. Dogmama, how long does it take to get into the Krebs cycle?

Thanks!
Roxy

[Dogmama]

My brain is going to explode.

I'm going to order the sports nutrition book as soon as I get home. I hope it will explain this Krebs cycle.

Okay, so the "trainer" at the Y took in my appearance and read the info sheet I'd filled out and started talking about watching my diet, avoid potatoes and pasta...same old stuff I hear from well-meaning friends who don't know me well. She recommended Weight Watchers. She also recommended I change doctors, or at least try hers because my doctor is missing something if I'm not losing weight, probably a low-performing thyroid, even though I told her I always test normal. Basically, she made a lot of assumptions based on her personal experiences.

I already know how to work the cardio machines, so she skipped that and took me to the Strive machines and explained how they worked, but I didn't get to work out at all. What a wasted afternoon.

Later, I stopped by a special swim store and bought a swim cap and new goggles. I'll work out tomorrow.

Roxy

I'm so sorry you had that experience. Gives all personal trainers a bad name.

Weight watchers is a good program if you can follow it. Having a group mentality, peer support, etc., can be inspiring.

Evil pasta and potatoes - they get blamed for so many things. Everything is fine in moderation. I think a baked potato is probably better than a deep fried zucchini slice, depending on how you doctor up your baked spud.

The Krebs cycle basically uses fat for fuel. But it is a slower process, hence it is used in endurance exercise. You must have some carbohydrate to turn the fat into fuel. And, you must have time to do endurance exercise because you need to pay attention to the calorie in vs. calorie out equation. Slower, endurance training burns less calories in 30 minutes than faster training.

That being said - I think the mind-body connection is equally important. Here's the deal: Say you do 30 minutes of pretty fast exercise - you're at 75 - 80% of your maximum heart rate - you can get out maybe 3 words before you get really winded. You get done and you're tired, maybe a little sore, and probably hungry. You've burned calories, but the trade off is fatigue - and perhaps a tendency to overeat because, after all, you burned those calories and now you're tired. Willpower is lessened.

OK, now you do the same 30 minutes at a more reasonable heart rate - say 70%. You should be able to carry on short conversations - 5 words maximum. You get done, you aren't as sore, you haven't burned as many calories, perhaps the rhythmic exercise has soothed your mind. So, the twinkies don't look as good because you're in a better space. You're more likely to exercise again tomorrow.

Beginning exercisers tend to hit it so hard that they get sore, fatigued and discouraged. They need to establish a habit of working out - but it's impossible when they suffer each time. OTOH, starting out slowly and enjoying moving your body can help cement that habit into your life. You are not as fatigued, you can work out again.

[Owlie]

LSD rides (long slow duration) use more fat because the Krebs cycle (where fat is burned) takes awhile. Faster rides at a higher heart rate use more carbs, generally. So, should overweight people do only LSD rides? No. It's the calories in vs calories out equation, for the most part.

Um...what Krebs cycle are we referring to here? The only one I'm familiar with is the one that burns everything (fats, carbs, amino acids) and is running all the time. Yes, going faster will preferentially burn sugars, because that's what is rapidly absorbed and doesn't need to go through extra enzymatic steps to be usable fuel.
[Biochemist slinks out of the room and goes back to her corner]

[Dogmama]

The Krebs cycle does go continuously. You're burning fat reading this post. When you exercise, you burn more fat via the Krebs cycle. Fat is burned preferentially to amino acids because fat is easier to convert to energy. Obviously, I'm keeping this simple. Detailed info can be had via an internet search, I'm sure.

When does it kick in - it starts running fast & burning more fat after the easily burned sugars are gone (again, I'm keeping this simple.) A lot depends on your body, how much sugar is stored & how quickly your body starts using fat for energy.

Rather than getting entangled in biochemical stuff, the most important things I tell people are: It's calories in vs calories out and most people overestimate the calories out part & underestimate the calories in part. This is a lifestyle change, not a quick diet. Exercise moderately and do it often - keeps your metabolism running higher. When you're done exercising, you should feel like you still have a little more in the tank. Diet is the most important part. One doughnut can wipe out half an hour on the treadmill.