New bike...can't shift into big chainring!

[OakLeaf]

Catriona, what kind of a FD do you have?

As I mentioned in the other thread, reach isn't a problem for me with my R700s, but it's a BIG effort upshifting my 105 FD. Maybe 10% of the time I'll end up trimming rather than shifting, and I always have to be cautious about not steering while I shift. It's a pretty long throw, but it's the effort much more than it is the distance. And in general I've got pretty strong forearms from motorcycling.

Someone else mentioned in the other thread - maybe it was aicabsolut again - that it's an issue for both 105 and Ultegra FDs, but that the spring tension on Dura-Ace is much lower.

[Cataboo]

I think they both have ultegra front derailleurs. One is a triple with 105 shifters and the other a compact double with ultegra shifters. I haven't noticed any problems with the 105 shifters - but then that bike doesn't have any of those cable barrel adjusters, so the bf can't just screw those out to tune the bike...

He's done it to my surly as well - I've got XTR shifters with a 105 front deraileur on it - it was initially easy to shift on the front derailleur, then I asked him to adjust something - and now in order to shift up on the front derailleur, I literally have to use the palm of my hand to push it in. They're trigger shifters and I mostly commute & rarely leave the large chain ring so I haven't made a huge deal out of it... But I noticed the other day when he was looking at that bike for me that he was having a hard time shifting up on the front. I think he made the cable too tight with his adjustments.

[laura*]

He's done it to my surly as well - I've got XTR shifters with a 105 front deraileur on it - it was initially easy to shift on the front derailleur, then I asked him to adjust something - and now in order to shift up on the front derailleur, I literally have to use the palm of my hand to push it in.

Hmmm. Could the shift cable be routed wrong?

At a bike co-op I was helping someone with a really cheap department store bike. The front shifter was *really* hard to move and I think it had even split the cable housing. It turned out that the cable was clamped on the wrong side of the FD's clamp bolt. It needed to attach as far out on the pivot arm as possible.

[Cataboo]

I'll check, but I don't think so since it used to be fine, but I'll look at it tomorrow

[OakLeaf]

He's done it to my surly as well - I've got XTR shifters with a 105 front deraileur on it - it was initially easy to shift on the front derailleur, then I asked him to adjust something - and now in order to shift up on the front derailleur, I literally have to use the palm of my hand to push it in. ... I think he made the cable too tight with his adjustments.

If the cable were too tight, then the frameward side of the cage would rub the chain, or it wouldn't want to downshift, or both. It would actually be easier to shift to the big chainring, because the 105 FD is low normal.

+1 on what laura* said. The cable doesn't go where it seems like it ought to on the 105 FD. There's a little protrusion on the washer (or on the pivot arm? I forget which even though I just replaced that cable four days ago) - anyway, there's a little protrusion that looks like it's supposed to hold the cable, but it's not. It's to keep the washer from turning when you tighten the bolt. On the opposite side there's a shallow channel that's very hard to see, especially if there's any grit or dirt in there - that's where the cable goes. When it's properly installed, the cable lives on the frameward side of the pivot arm, and the end of it is pointed out toward your leg, so that it could even catch your calf or heel if you don't bend it back.


PS - a barrel adjuster is really handy. Make sure you install one the next time you replace your cable housings...

[aicabsolut]

DA is much easier to shift, but I think it's a combination of the shifter and the FD. The throw is a lot easier and shorter compared to ultegra or 105. Some of that might be due to the spring tension on the FD, but I think a lot of it is the shifter. That's because you'd have the same cable pull with DA (at least 7800) as the others because of cross-compatibility.

I think the new DA has adjustible levers, like SRAM. Anyone know if the new ultegra (6700) will too? The cable pull on that system is very different than the old because of internal routing, so you'd have to upgrade derailleurs and shifters. Then you might as well save some money and go with SRAM Rival or something.

I still think that it's likely the tuning isn't quite right. It shouldn't be impossibly hard. What does your husband have on his bikes?

[Cataboo]

+1 on what laura* said. The cable doesn't go where it seems like it ought to on the 105 FD. There's a little protrusion on the washer (or on the pivot arm? I forget which even though I just replaced that cable four days ago) - anyway, there's a little protrusion that looks like it's supposed to hold the cable, but it's not. It's to keep the washer from turning when you tighten the bolt. On the opposite side there's a shallow channel that's very hard to see, especially if there's any grit or dirt in there - that's where the cable goes. When it's properly installed, the cable lives on the frameward side of the pivot arm, and the end of it is pointed out toward your leg, so that it could even catch your calf or heel if you don't bend it back.


PS - a barrel adjuster is really handy. Make sure you install one the next time you replace your cable housings...

Oh, the bike without barrel adjusters - I'd bought a frame that evening and just had to build it up immediately. So I stripped all the pieces off an old bike & put it on the new bike. The barrel adjusters didn't fit the new bike, so they were left off. bike was finished at 2 am, and I took it for a spin. I haven't had to tune that bike since (it shifts great), so I haven't bothered to go get barrel adjusters to fit it. It does have a barrel adjuster on the rear derailleur, so I can tweak that if I have to.


Whenever I replace the cables or anything like that, I'll get it some barrel adjusters.

I checked my surly's 105 front derailleur - the cable does stick out towards my leg and the cable is clamped on the frameward side of the arm. And it looks like there's a slight groove that it's sitting in, but I didn't unscrew it to tell for sure. I don't think it's that the cable's routed wrong. But then, the cable is routed how it seems like it out to be (at least to me), so maybe it is routed wrong. I checked the diagrams on the install pdf on shimano, and it seems to be in line with that.

[OakLeaf]

I checked my surly's 105 front derailleur - the cable does stick out towards my leg and the cable is clamped on the frameward side of the arm. And it looks like there's a slight groove that it's sitting in, but I didn't unscrew it to tell for sure. I don't think it's that the cable's routed wrong. But then, the cable is routed how it seems like it out to be (at least to me), so maybe it is routed wrong. I checked the diagrams on the install pdf on shimano, and it seems to be in line with that.

Well that does sound right. I'm out of guesses. Hope you get it sorted.

When the cable's installed, it doesn't look wrong to me, that's not what I meant. It's only when I'm installing a new one - or if I've completely disconnected the existing cable to adjust it - that it looks to me like it should go on the side with the protrusion.

[Cataboo]

Oh, it's not a big deal, i just push down with my palm instead of my thumb, I should just get better at tuning this stuff myself. that bike has a short chain stay, 9 speed road cranks up front (53, 39, 30) & 9 speed 105 and an 8 speed XTR cassette & derailleur in the back - so it sort of has a short chain length to make some pretty big gear changes, and it's tricky to tune well and has a lot of cross chain effects. I have an 8 speed chain on their currently, but I think I should put a 9 speed chain on it.

[dianne_1234]

From http://www.hostelshoppe.com/tech_frontderail.php

"On Shimano bottom pull derailleurs it is important to note that the cable runs UP AND OVER the leverage tab. Many people make the mistake of using the leverage tab as a cable pinch by running the cable UNDER the leverage tab - this changes the pulling leverage of the front shifter and makes it impossible to properly adjust the front derailleur."

There's a nice photo on this web site with a circle drawn on the "leverage tab" they're talking about.