girl roles-playing princess, etc.

[OakLeaf]

My experience as a daughter (not a parent) is that parents can successfully isolate their kids from cultural influences if they isolate them from culture - few friends allowed, only infant TV (which had a lot fewer commercials than modern shows), no after school activities. I guess the present-day equivalent is home schooling.

My opinion is the social isolation and the lifelong impairment in the ability to have social relationships, just aren't worth it. Eventually an adult can teach herself how to dress and groom herself; learning how to interact with peers needs to happen in childhood, I think.

Oddly enough, my mom did raise me on the fantasy that someday I might marry Prince Charles, who's my same age.

[lph]

I wouldn't worry too much about the role-playing or the clothes - they probably mean something quite different to a small girl (maybe a dream of being magically elevated above everything mundane and boring) - but I would put a little effort into exploring her values and ideas, listening to them, and challenging them if necessary at the right age. And making ones own values clear, of course.

We tried to delay our son's exposure to realistic war toys, but never forbade them. So he's run around and "killed" people like every small boy, but I also made it very clear that I did not want him pointing anything gunlike at me, because it made me uncomfortable. Because people really do die that way, and I did not want to play at that particular game.

To each their own sensibilities. There are things I wouldn't let my son (or daughter if I had one) wear, but that would be because they didn't understand the message it gave to the rest of society.

[Aggie_Ama]

My nieces like princess stuff and anything pink or purple. They also like camping, fishing, making mudpies, getting gross on the ranch. The only thing I refuse to buy is the Hannah Montana stuff because I think it is a bit old for them (4&6). I like to get educational toys but I also believe dolls promote imagination, every play time my Barbies were in some mini-story I made up. In my opinion it all has some benefit.

[limewave]

I have an almost 4yo dd. We tried to keep her away from the Princess stuff after seeing our neice go through that phase. But somehow dd ended up with a wardrobe of princess dresses, princess shoes, princess purses, princess everything (thank to grandma and grandpa who have declared "there are no rules in their house!").

It bothered DH but I didn't really see the harm. Until . . .

She started getting a prissy princess attitude. And it was BAD. We took all of her princess things away and stashed them in the attic. We told her when she could start behaving like a "real" princess, she could have them back.

Now we talk alot about the characteristics of a princess: kind, uses her manners, thinks of others before herself, etc.

We have not given her princess dresses back yet. But we do get dressed up in pretty dresses. We practice having royal tea parties and go to the ball. It's all fun and fantasy, but we also learn proper ettiquette. DD doesn't even ask about her princess stuff anymore.

DD has a much better attitude. We are surprising her with a trip to Disney World this winter and doing the Princess Tea Party We even plan on giving her back one of her princess dresses She's earned it.

[limewave]

By the way, Princess Parties are VERY popular. It's almost impossible to avoid the Disney Princess franchise. I keep thinking we should move to the country and become Amish.

[Pax]

I'd be fascinated to see how a little kid would grow up if they weren't exposed to non-stop 24/7 marketing.

[tulip]

I was not allowed to have Barbies, so I went over to my friends to play with hers.

The Barbie itself did not have a negative effect on me. What did, however, is the still present curse of disapproval--the things that I valued as a child were disapproved of by my parents. As a child, that translated into them disapproving of me.

I hope your brother just lets his daughter be.

[nj_likes]

My opinion is the social isolation and the lifelong impairment in the ability to have social relationships, just aren't worth it. Eventually an adult can teach herself how to dress and groom herself; learning how to interact with peers needs to happen in childhood, I think.

I have to agree with OakLeaf. My parents tried to shelter me a LOT when I was a child. We didn't get to watch TV, we didn't have a lot of toys (although, I did have a few Barbies....along with marbles and Transformers), and we played outside a lot. However, as much as my parents meant it for my own good, it made relating to my peers very difficult.

My current philosophy is "everything in moderation." That's how we plan on raising our daughter.

[Mr. Bloom]

My current philosophy is "everything in moderation." That's how we plan on raising our daughter.

I think that's a good philosophy! Even the "really good" things are a problem in excess.

[Irulan]

late to the party.

I was forbidden Barbies and all that good stuff. The only good thing about the way my uber lefty parents raised me is that my brother was able to get CO status for the Vietman war because of thier anti war toy position.

Here's how I handled stuff with my boys. Yes, boys but there are still issues. I explained in terms they could understand WHY we didn't do certain things or allow certain toys at our house.

Example: we didn't buy/permit much Disney stuff. The reasons we ( both of us as parents ) gave 1. Disney repackaged someone else's stories - you explain this correctly and you can have great library adventures finding Milne, Hans Christen Anderson etc and 2. guys sitting around trying to figure out how many products they can market to parents and or kids. Kids GET this stuff.

Same thing with cartoon advertising and toys. If you explain it in kid terms, they easily grasp the concept that someone is just trying to make a buck off of cartoon tagged toothbrushes, underpants and other stuff. But you have to start early.

We did the math on Happy Meals, just how much you were paying for that crappy little toy.

My boy's hearts were broken when Lego sold out and started branding thier blocks with Pizza Hut and a few other things.

I think it's important to encourage imagination through dressups and fantasy play.. so instead of forbidding princess play, if I had daughters I'd find ways to make it creative and imaginative, and not just be reenactment of the latest Disney cartoon. I would spend a lot of time explaining WHY, in terms they could grasp, certain roles might be positive or negative, instead of just not allowing it. And then present the kind of imagination fodder that would be acceptable.

It's eerie now that my boys are pretty much grown, to see how the indoctrination I did about Disney TV cartoon toys and marketing has stayed with them into adult hood, and manifested into some fairly cool social responsibility.

[sfa]

I think with kids you get what you get and there's not a lot you can do to change that. Lots of stories of kids who seek out the things they want/are interested in even when their parents disapprove attest to that.

My DD is definitely NOT the daughter I imagined. While the whole Princess Lifestyle (tm) makes me ill, I loved traditional girl toys growing up--dolls and tea parties and pretend games (I also loved basketball and camping and seeing what I could mix up with my chemistry set, though). So with my DD I was looking forward to getting her baby dolls and playing dress up and having slumber parties with her friends.

Not happening. When someone gave her a Barbie doll, she undressed it, said "look, mommy, a doll with boobies" and then held it by the head and used it's sharp pointy feet as a sword. Then it went into a box and she never touched it again. She DOES play with the play food, but only to feed all of her stuffed animals. She's all about animals and really nothing else--and that's a completely foreign concept to me. I think I had two stuffed animals growing up and they just kinda sat around.

There's no point in trying to change her--she is who she is and likes what she likes, and I love her no matter what she likes. So the American Girl doll was a waste of $100 (it just kinda sits around). The Disney Princess she really likes is the kick-*** Mulan, but overall with Disney movies she'd rather watch Lady and the Tramp and Lion King. I don't think I've ever disapproved of anything she likes, but I have to admit to a few years of confusion as her personality and tastes emerged and I wondered where the heck this was coming from!

Sarah

[limewave]

There's no point in trying to change her--she is who she is and likes what she likes, and I love her no matter what she likes. So the American Girl doll was a waste of $100 (it just kinda sits around).

This is so true. DD (almost 4yo) keeps getting extravagant dolls from one aunt in particular. DD doesn't play with dolls. She has no interest in them. The in-laws ask me what she wants for presents and I always say: soccer or swim lessons, a camelbak (she keeps asking for one), flashcards . . . Then they look at me quizzically and say "I want to get her something SHE can use."

Didn't I just tell them?

But they continue to buy her dolls that sit at the bottom of her toy box. She likes to play sports. She likes to play "School" with her baby brother. I never see her playing with "toys" of any kind.