"Unfair Genetic Advantage"

[BalaRoja]

It appears very likely that Semenya is probably intersexed in some way and/or has AIS. The question for the track and field organizers will be if said conditions present an advantage. If you have AIS, you generally don't benefit from T because your condition, Androgen (testosterone) Insensitivity Syndrome, makes you unresponsive to T. With Semenya's t-levels being around 7.5 as I remember, this is 3x higher than the 'normal' female range so her responsiveness to T is probably 'the' issue. From my recollection, the rulings on these matters have been mixed in the past.

For those that might be confused by the notion of intersexed, just bear in mind that it is hardly as uncommon as some might like to imagine. In fact, given the frequency of intersex conditions, 1 in roughly 3000, you are far more likely to BE intersexed than to be an olympic athletes.

Regarding the question of MTF transwomen in sport.

Basically a fully transitioned MTF will almost always have a significant a disadvantage in endurance/aerobic competition against natal women in most sports, including cycling, running, etc.

Why? Because her body no longer produces testosterone. In fact her T-levels will be lower than natal women's t-level's. That's due to the small amounts of T that are produced in a natal woman's ovaries. Very low testosterone also greatly lowers hemoglobin levels. Hemoglobin is an oxygen transporting metalloprotein. Less oxygen to muscles = reduced aerobic performance.

In addition, muscle tone decreases significantly and body fat increases. Meanwhile she still has a heavier male skeleton to support, so power to weight ratio predictably drops also.

T levels are, as stated by the IAAF the very CRUX of the matter in deciding whether an athlete can compete. Normal/common levels for men and women aren't even close - with the top 'normal' level for women being almost 400% LOWER than the bottom 'normal' level for men.

In agreement with all the above is the Olympic organizing committee's established decision to allow MTF athletes to compete in their chosen gender at the highest level.

I can comment on the trans angle with, shall we say many years of 'personal' experience.

[katluvr]

BalaRoja,
Thanks for that information. Nicely explained.

I have strayed from the other posts....since it was getting a bit much for me.

From my nursing experience the intersex issue is a very big complicated one! Much less when you mix in all this.

K

[spazzdog]

If it hasn't been mentioned before, a wonderful novel titled "Middlesex" is out there in bookworld. The author describes a few (of the several) types of intersex states.


But to the actual subject, young Semenya... what a horrible way to find out. An unconscionable person in a medical capacity leaks to a newspaper. I could care less about the competition at this point. I hope there is some psych support for this young woman (thats whats on her birth certificate).

spazz

[smilingcat]

I heard she has no womb nor ovaries but a testicle of sorts in her body... Okay.

And if you were AIS then no amount of testosterone will make you male. But she does seem to have some male like attributes. sooo I'm bit confused here. Just from the physiology perspective and nothing to do with athletics. And if being AIS makes your body to reject or not recognize the testosterone so you develop as a woman? but wouldn't you need estrogen to make you a girl?? Why is it that lack of testosterone (or not recognizing the male hormone) make you a girl instead of well.... I dunno. I'm really ignorant sometimes. I mean no offense. Seriously confused.

Reporting in the media, the testing labs. THEY MAKE ME ANGRY!! If I were like Ms. Semenya and it happend to me, I think I would be angry, hurt, ... What a $hit thing to happen. Sorry I rarely swear but this really takes the cake.

I hope she can continue to compete as a woman and for her to keep her medal. ***'em.

Okay I need to go and calm myself down. Seriously!!

[BalaRoja]

........ But she does seem to have some male like attributes. sooo I'm bit confused here. Just from the physiology perspective and nothing to do with athletics. And if being AIS makes your body to reject or not recognize the testosterone so you develop as a woman? but wouldn't you need estrogen to make you a girl?? Why is it that lack of testosterone (or not recognizing the male hormone) make you a girl instead of well.... I dunno. I'm really ignorant sometimes. I mean no offense. Seriously confused.

Hi smilingcat - don't think you are being offensive at all. You are asking valid and reasonable questions.

Why does she develop as a woman without estrogen you ask?

This female physical development is not due to the presence and influence of estrogens (which are absent in AIS people) but actually due to the the ineffectiveness of androgens . In other words, the inherent trend is for any fetus to develop female external genitals and general body form, UNLESS male hormones are present.

Think of it this way - and this is an oversimplification but perhaps a useful idea:

we all start out as female at conception, sort of, but then some become male shortly thereafter if certain conditions are present.

[Mr. Bloom]

I continue to agree with quotes in SadieKate's posted article...if she is naturally what she is, then she should be allowed to compete. Anything more than that is an "overengineered and intellectualized conclusion" by people who are paid to feel important by debating the number of angels who can fit on the head of a pin.

To me, an "unfair advantage" is one that doesn't naturally occur.

[papaver]

whatever the outcome, when you see her, there's such a 'tristesse' about her. I just hope she doesn't become a freak show for the amusement of others.