"Unfair Genetic Advantage"

[Mr. Bloom]

A couple of links for you, Mr. Silver. white privilege Owning unearned white privilege

Karen

Since you asked, yes. But, I disagree with the basic premise, because:
- I cannot change how others feel...I am responsible for me
- I cannot change the past, I can only observe and be a catalyst of change in the present

I believe that NOTHING is accomplished by focusing on the past...we have to acknowledge it, but we have to constantly do gut checks in the present to assure that we are fair in the HERE and NOW.

Back to the topic of this thread - I believe it is unfair and unjust to isolate natural hormone levels as an unfair advantage WHEN we would not isolate other genetic or physical attributes as being unfair. I went to high school with a guy who was 7'1"...he was not athletic, but he started playing basketball in his Junior year and HIS HEIGHT got him a full ride scholarship to college. Was that unfair...NO WAY. If she had a sex change or resorted to other unnatural methods, I'd say kick her out...but don't penalize herself for being blessed.

ETA: I originally objected to the raising of race because there is no evidence to support that bias and as others subsequently pointed out, there is precedent for other races/nationalities being challenged with this same thing. When we look for prejudice where none exists, then we are spending too much time looking back and that will prevent us from moving forward.

[Cataboo]

I'm wondering how scientific the actual ranges used for normal testosterone levels in men & women actually are? How big of a sample size?

It somewhat reminds me of how flawed the science of testing for doping actually is. There was an analysis article in Nature about a year back on how unscientific the tests were that got flloyd landis in trouble.

[salsabike]

I'm wondering how scientific the actual ranges used for normal testosterone levels in men & women actually are? How big of a sample size?

It somewhat reminds me of how flawed the science of testing for doping actually is. There was an analysis article in Nature about a year back on how unscientific the tests were that got flloyd landis in trouble.

Good questions, those.

[salsabike]

Here's a take from a primary care sports medicine doc: http://listedasprobable.typepad.com/...-field-ch.html

[Tuckervill]

Since you asked, yes. But, I disagree with the basic premise, because:
- I cannot change how others feel...I am responsible for me
- I cannot change the past, I can only observe and be a catalyst of change in the present

I believe that NOTHING is accomplished by focusing on the past...we have to acknowledge it, but we have to constantly do gut checks in the present to assure that we are fair in the HERE and NOW.

But you walk forward every day as one who has a privilege endowed upon him by being white and male, through no action of your own. That is here and now. I'm not talking about the past. Acknowledge that you have that privilege or you can't move forward.

If you don't acknowledge that--the articles were posted to foster understanding of the issue--your gut is lying to you.

Karen

[Mr. Bloom]

But you walk forward every day as one who has a privilege endowed upon him by being white and male, through no action of your own. That is here and now. I'm not talking about the past. Acknowledge that you have that privilege or you can't move forward.

If you don't acknowledge that--the articles were posted to foster understanding of the issue--your gut is lying to you.

Karen

Karen, if anything, being a white male is a disadvantage these days...and has been for years

I understand the position you assert...I simply disagree

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Karen, if anything, being a white male is a disadvantage these days...and has been for years

uh oh.

[Cataboo]

uh oh.

My heart bleeds for him and his disadvantages... Oh no, he was forced to make more money than his female counterparts in the exact same job!

[salsabike]

Karen, if anything, being a white male is a disadvantage these days...and has been for years

Wow, this morphed into a comedy thread!

[MartianDestiny]

Come on Ladies...

Don't ya think it's just a bit hypocritical to beat on Silver for mentioning that the "race card" might not need to be pulled in this instance and then beat on him for pulling one?

Yes, reverse discrimination happens (disguised as "affirmative action" or not), and yes, middle to upper class white males are the primary targets.

To ridicule him for claiming it exists at all in areas is ridiculous; especially after pages of jumping on him about the continued existence of racism after he mentioned that an at best borderline racist comment was perhaps out of line.

But I guess because the comment was about "white society" it can't possibly be racist and that because he's "white" no one could have possibly judged him negatively (or judged someone higher, which is the same thing)...

[Cataboo]

Come on Ladies...

Don't ya think it's just a bit hypocritical to beat on Silver for mentioning that the "race card" might not need to be pulled in this instance and then beat on him for pulling one?

Nope. But then, I could just be racist against white people.

You killed my forefathers and raped my foremothers.

[Biciclista]

Karen, if anything, being a white male is a disadvantage these days...and has been for years

Uh, oh really?
blink blink?
comedy, just what I needed.

[Tuckervill]

Karen, if anything, being a white male is a disadvantage these days...and has been for years

I understand the position you assert...I simply disagree

Alrighty then. Take the male part out, and that puts me and you in the same class. You're really going to look me in the eye and say we don't have an advantage because we are white?

Please, just shut up about it, then.

Karen

[smilingcat]

ummm getting back to Semenya and some issues.

A co-worker who was a very good mid-distance runner in his youth said the following:

For a teenager to run a sub 2 minute 800m is really really good.

for some one to improve over 5 seconds in a span of a year is doable if you didn't have a proper coaching until a year ago. Once you get on a "real" training program where everything is minutely controlled, its not unconceivable to show that kind of improvement in a year. Something Semenya did. It also sounds like she didn't have proper training prior to last year when she burst onto the scene

Didn't watch the race but if she didn't completely blow apart the field, then it doesn't sound like a foul play. If she was ahead of the pack by two seconds but the pack was spread more than two seconds, then there really is no problem. Whereas if she was two seconds ahead and the pack was tight meaning not separated by more than a second or so then it may point to some sort of problem.

If she didn't break the world record at 18, it doesn't look like any foul play.

The last part bugs me... So if you are questionable its okay as long as you didn't break the record?? How can you justify such comment?

Anyway, it sounds like she is just one of those anomalies good or bad and she is going to be shattering world records in years to come. I wish her well. To her competitors, stop being a sour puss. Life is never fair.

Life is full of in-equity so get over it

[Trek420]

Since you asked, yes. But, I disagree with the basic premise, because:
........

I cannot change the past, I can only observe and be a catalyst of change in the present

I believe that NOTHING is accomplished by focusing on the past...we have to acknowledge it, but we have to constantly do gut checks in the present to assure that we are fair in the HERE and NOW.

I feel to know where you are going you must know where you've been.

I love the past, reading about it, studying it. In history I learn about righteous men and women with access to every advantage (yes, rich white dudes ) and at times when it was not easy, back in the day when one did not blog your way to rights but risked their lives. .... they did the right thing because it's as damaging to ones soul to be an oppressor as it is to be oppressed. At least that's what I was told growing up and that one should be able to live a life in which you are neither.

I love history, studying it, learning it because I learn about those who overcame tremendous obstacles that stopped others yet they were able to overcome.

They remind me when I face a wall I can't go around, under, over, break through that "Look what s/he did!!! You can achieve your goal"

It does not mean those who did not rise above discrimination are any less than those who do, or "Anyone can do _______, s/he did!" who knows what inner strength lets some rise above what another person can't break through. But I love learning about them.

That's just me.

But back somehow to cycling. Where I roll, supposedly the most liberal of urban areas, the most diverse. For example we have more Chinese than just about anywhere other than uhm ... well... China and every other group too and yet I have friends who say they don't do group rides because they don't feel welcome and say they have been snubbed, they don't go to bike shops because they don't get treated well (that's not at MY favorite shop!!).

I look around me at events and in shops and well it's an upper middle class white sport. I think as a sport we need to own that, open up, and create a cycling culture that is diverse.

But that's just me.