"Unfair Genetic Advantage"

[witeowl]

I'm not sure that racism plays much of a factor in the Semenya issue... if a white girl looked that masculine, I think there's be an issue about it as well... however, maybe they would have been more discrete about it

I'm 100% with you here.

Okay, complete tangent, but claiming that it's not always about race and ignoring such issues really doesn't make them go away. The fact that america has a black president doesn't mean that we don't have a huge number of racists.

Sure. But pulling the race card all the time also doesn't make them go away. If anything, calling attention to "race" all the time, particularly when there's a dubious connection, does its own amount of damage.

There was a fantastic line on Saturday Night Live when they had "Hillary Clinton" and "Sarah Palin" together in a press conference. At one point "Sarah" talks about how fantastic it would be to have their shared dream of getting a woman into the White House fulfilled. "Clinton" responds, quite on point, that she never cared about becoming a woman president. "I never wanted to be the first woman president. I wanted to be president, and I happen to be a woman," she retorted. That's the attitude I wish we could all take.

Since you brought it up, I think that's the view Obama took. He didn't set out to be a black president. He set out to be president. Period.

Continuing to make such a big deal about "race" (which really needs to be recognized for the myth it is) continues to point out a physical difference that we really need to learn matters about as much as hair color.

Farm workers & poor people get tans, light skin means you don't have to do menial labor. Go through Vietnam, and you will see all the women riding bikes and motorbikes in big brimmed hats with gloves that stretch up to their shoulders and long pants.

True enough. And, as you say, this occurs around the world. But does that mean that it has anything to do with race? Does that mean that they're trying to look "whiter"? No, it means that they're trying to look richer. Little if not nothing at all to do with race.

They also all do anything and everything to keep out of the sun. Holding parasols, whatever.

I always thought that was an intelligent way to avoid the heat. I grew up in San Diego and we always thought it was just smart... and I kind of envied people who didn't care so much about looking "foolish" that they'd rather fry in the sun.

OK, anyway, I've contributed to the derailment of this thread for long enough. I'll find another pot to stir.

[Cataboo]

Since you brought it up, I think that's the view Obama took. He didn't set out to be a black president. He set out to be president. Period.

Continuing to make such a big deal about "race" (which really needs to be recognized for the myth it is) continues to point out a physical difference that we really need to learn matters about as much as hair color.

I think Obama's position on this is that he doesn't identify himself as a "black" man - America sees him as one, so that is what he is. A black friend who grew up in the Caribbean, south America & Europe puts it the same way - He was never "black" until he moved to the US. Previous to that, he was just himself. I can say the same with my childhood - I never identified as half asian or anything other than just me or human until at some point in elementary school I started getting the chink comments or the chanting "chinese, japanese, nursery rhyme stuff" with the accompanying eyelid pulling. I'm not going to complain about any issues of racism or anything like that, but I do notice it when it's directed against my mother, even when it is subtle.

And the problem with what you're saying - is that the people that keep saying let's not make an issue of race or talk about it are typically white people who never have to deal with it and aren't comfortable discussing it, especially with black people around and in some ways that's a form of racism. And they're typically very ideological nice ones - but the problem is that's not all of the US and parts of the US is racist, and ignoring that by sweeping it all under the rug is not the solution.

I do completely know where you're coming from with the "playing the race card" thing, and I know people that are overly sensitive and scream it all the time about stupid stuff... My sister will get super hypersensitive when her hispanic husband is told that he needs better written english skills by his boss, and how it's discrimination... but the reality is that the guy does need better written english skills, especially for a management position.

True enough. And, as you say, this occurs around the world. But does that mean that it has anything to do with race? Does that mean that they're trying to look "whiter"? No, it means that they're trying to look richer. Little if not nothing at all to do with race.

Nah, in south America it has more to do with looking whiter, because then you have more Spanish ancestors than indian ones... It's actually a pretty huge insult to tell a south american they have indian blood.

As for the Asian example - when shooting star brought it up, you said why is this about race? what if it's just personal preference? And I explained that it wasn't just personal preference. And how a lot of it in asian society was an attempt to look whiter (hence all the plastic surgery examples)... The whiter vietnamese and the richer ones have mixed with the French during colonial times... Darker skinned vietnamese are looked down upon whether or not it is from the sun or their genetic heritage. Now, whether you want to call this racism or not (given that there really aren't any true races anyways), it is discrimination based on skin color.

[witeowl]

And the problem with what you're saying - is that the people that keep saying let's not make an issue of race or talk about it are typically white people who never have to deal with it and aren't comfortable discussing it, especially with black people around and in some ways that's a form of racism. And they're typically very ideological nice ones - but the problem is that's not all of the US and parts of the US is racist, and ignoring that by sweeping it all under the rug is not the solution.

As long as we keep making it all about race... it will be all about race. I'm not saying we should sweep it under the rug so much as I'm saying that we should point out the ludicrousness of it when it does happen.

The first time race was ever an issue for me was when a group of girls on the playground came up and asked, "How does it feel to have your mom dating a black man?" I was befuddled. "I don't know. How does it feel to have your mom married to a white man?"

That question made as much sense to me as would, "How does it feel to have your mom dating a redhead?" I don't blame my schoolmates, mind you. I blame their parents who were clearly discussing the "scandal".

Look, I'm plenty fine discussing it. I've faced prejudice: as a child in an interracial family, as an ESL learner, as a woman, as a lower middle class person, as a manager younger than my employees, as a significantly overweight person, as a white teacher in a school with a large population of Latino students.

(In fact, I love it when, as has happened a couple of times, I'm told, "You're just picking on me 'cause I'm brown." I respond, "Half my family is browner than you, so try again. Now get back to work." It's never failed.)

But I'm more than happy to say that we need to start shutting up about it when it isn't really an issue. When it is an issue? Sure, stomp on it and call it out for its idiocy. But when it's questionable and likely more imaginary than real? Why beat a dead horse that isn't even there?