"Unfair Genetic Advantage"

[OakLeaf]

I agree with nearly all of what's been said. The trouble is, it leads down a road most of us probably don't want to go down. If there isn't a bright line between male and female (which I agree there isn't), should there be separate competitive categories for men and women? And if not, where does that leave the talented women athletes - including Semenya - who simply didn't develop with the same amount of testosterone as those whom we consider "men"?

[alpinerabbit]

It's unfair for the individual - it's happened before and people had to give up their careers - but it's also unfair to the other women if an elevated testosterone level helped her develop to the level she's competing at.

Apparently the South African athletic association was aware of it (they already did a test this spring) and they even have an Ex-GDR coach who was involved in steroid doping back in the GDR days, and it is presumed that her testosterone levels were artificially reduced before competitions to evade tests.

By the way (this is really mean but what a coincidence) - her name is an anagram of Yes a secret man...

[KnottedYet]

Colby asked: "And what are transgendered people (especially MtF) really to do? Not compete at all? Is their inherent genetic "advantage" really an advantage after hormone therapy and gender reassignment surgery? Any moreso than a statistically tall/athletic woman born a woman?"

That question was pretty neatly answered by the experience of Janet Furman Bowman.

Janet Furman Bowman was a pretty serious competitive runner (and kept excellent records) when she was a man, and continued running after she became a woman.

Her experience of the level of effort was the same, though her times dropped enormously. But, within the women's category she was in the same percentile as when she raced in the men's category.

No advantage to having been male for several decades. www.pfc.org.uk/files/A_Six_Minute_Difference.pdf

If Semenya isn't doping or cheating, if her body is naturally as powerful as it is during these races, then I just don't see how disqualifying her for the way God made her can at all be fair.

ETA: I liked some of the comments on slashdot. Two in particular. The idea that athletic competition is divided into "definitely female" and "everyone else." (making the division meaningless anyway) Also the idea that all competitive athletes have advantages over "normal" people, that's why they are competitive athletes; so why kick out a competitive athlete who naturally has an advantage over other competitive athletes? I bookmarked slashdot, lots of fun nerd stuff there!

[colby]

Colby asked: "And what are transgendered people (especially MtF) really to do? Not compete at all? Is their inherent genetic "advantage" really an advantage after hormone therapy and gender reassignment surgery? Any moreso than a statistically tall/athletic woman born a woman?"

That question was pretty neatly answered by the experience of Janet Furman Bowman.

Janet Furman Bowman was a pretty serious competitive runner (and kept excellent records) when she was a man, and continued running after she became a woman.

Her experience of the level of effort was the same, though her times dropped enormously. But, within the women's category she was in the same percentile as when she raced in the men's category.

I heard about this after I posted. Very interesting, and good for the case to allow transgendered individuals to continue to compete, which I know has come up before in other sports.

There was also a video and some commentary on another blog I read, Sociological Images. The video is from MSNBC.

http://contexts.org/socimages/2009/0...-semenyas-sex/

He doesn't really add anything to the conversation, except to try to allude that there shouldn't be male/female categories either. So what does that boil it down to, testing for testosterone levels? So you compete in a category with similar levels of "genetic advantage" to your own? That seems extreme. We sure are overcomplicating things for something that's supposed to be fun.

And in those pictures, she sure looks like a woman to me. A lot of the track and field athletes are tall, fit, muscular, and don't have strong feminine features. That body type is kind of what got them there in the first place, isn't it??

[KnottedYet]

And in those pictures, she sure looks like a woman to me. A lot of the track and field athletes are tall, fit, muscular, and don't have strong feminine features. That body type is kind of what got them there in the first place, isn't it??

All the pictures I've seen of her, she looks like a woman to me, too. Perhaps people who've never competed in track or who are unfamiliar with the body competitive runners develop could be confused. Especially if they are also not used to seeing women with short hair. (remember the hysteria when Winona Ryder and Natalie Portman had buzz cuts? short hair is non-standard at the moment...)