bicycles banned in Colorado?

[Mr. Bloom]

As long as it's well marked with restrictions approved in an open "due process" with well defined guidelines, I agree that this should be OK.

Using Andrea's example in Memphis, there are other convenient and safer routes for a cyclist. In addition, if it's the same one I'm thinking of, it's also confusing enough for cars with lanes that change direction based on the time of day. It would be fool hardy for a cyclist to stubbornly exercise their right there.

[TrekTheKaty]

I just got back from Boulder on vacation. The trip started with a heated discussion with the in-laws while DRIVING about cyclists on the road. I was surprised to see this hostility in Colorado--I thought it would be a bike friendly place--but I sensed tension.

Cycling in Colorado is VERY popular, and for many cyclists, their only mode of transportation. I rode around with my head hanging out the window like a puppy dog, trying to take in all the different bicycle makes, models and jerseys.

A road outside Lyons is being repaved. As a result, a three-lane road is now a two-lane road with no shoulder. There were numerous construction signs, saying "No bicycles" and "bicycle detour" well before this section of road (that was a new one!). However, by BIL encountered a cyclist recently and he had to slow and ride behind him for quite some time, resulting a over a 1/2 mile-long back up. When BIL finally got an opportunity to pass, the cyclists flipped him off (BIL's version). Now if this is a true story, the cyclists was in the wrong, by riding on a busy road with no shoulder that was specifically designated "construction, no bicycles"--with detours clearly posted. However, if you LIVE on this road and this is your sole mode of transportation, I can see the cyclists frustration.

Of course, BIL didn't understand why the cyclist didn't ride on the part of the road under construction, which looked like the equivalent of the rumble strips on the side on highways. We explained that wasn't practical, and the cyclist has a right to the road--BUT can they post, "No Bicycles"? Good question..........

As a tax payer, I have issues with being restricted from public-use roads--however, apparently in Colorado, if you don't own a car, you aren't contributing to maintaining the roads? (I don't know if that's true, but an interesting thing to research)

We took time to explain that we DO ride on the road at home, but not long stretches without shoulders. And that cyclists do have a right to be on the road--reminding them that it could be their FAMILY on that bicycle, which seemed to make them think a little.

Can anyone from this area explain? Solo? Martian?

[IFjane]

I live in VA but ride in CO every year. I ride out of Denver & I sense that most of the hostility is more up toward Boulder. I rode quite a bit in Jeffco this summer and did not have one bit of trouble. One day I was on some narrow canyon roads, too (don't know the route number but I am referring to the road that goes from Morrison by Red Rocks). I rode through Golden to Red Rocks and from there to Kerr Gulch Rd., then took that to Bergen Park. You locals should know what I am talking about. From Bergen Park I took I-70 to the next exit (Chief Hosa) & the frontage road down and then back to Golden...and back to Denver.

Regarding riding on I-70, the attached picture is me riding on I-70 toward Loveland Pass just a couple weeks ago.

[Kathi]

Many of these roads are used for training rides by local clubs and are heavily used on weekends and evenings. I don't think the problem is as bad on weekdays.

[Anathema]

I was surprised to see this hostility in Colorado--I thought it would be a bike friendly place--but I sensed tension...

We took time to explain that we DO ride on the road at home, but not long stretches without shoulders.

Can anyone from this area explain? Solo? Martian?

I live about 40 miles north of Boulder/Lyons. Up here, the problem is if you want to travel any kind of distance (say commute from one town to another 15-20 miles away) all of our roads that go anywhere are two lane roads with no shoulders. The speed limits on these roads range from 40-55 MPH, but I don't think anyone observes the 40ish limits. I don't personally have the nerve (yet? I hope) to try my luck with riding in the wild, but as a driver, the cyclists on our roads terrify me. The county roads that connect our towns are not so heavily traveled that it's impossible to veer around them, but there are times that you do have to follow someone for a little way before oncoming traffic opens up, and God help the driver of the car the waits until they feel they can pass safely against all the people piling up behind her, not to mention the cyclist herself.

I can't imagine it would ever happen, because of the expense, but I wish they could build parallel cycleways, actually offset from the main road, to allow everyone to travel more safely. I think putting up "Share the Road" signs on busy roads that don't have room for both kinds of traffic just invites resentment.

[canonsue]

I actually live along the route that is the center of this dispute. It is the Deer Creek Canyon/High Grade/City View Dr./S. Turkey Creek route. I live on City View Drive.

I agree with much of what Kathi has written. There are some cyclists who's behaviors are aggravating the problem. There are some residents whose reactions to these behaviors and cyclists on the road seem extreme.

The solution that might satisfy both sides would be expensive and that is widening the road for a cyclist lane. Even that, I am not sure that it would completely calm tempers.

I have friends that live along Deer Creek Canyon and they were telling me that some of their neighbors are so livid over the cyclists that they fear that some day violence will break out.

-Sue

[Eden]

I have friends that live along Deer Creek Canyon and they were telling me that some of their neighbors are so livid over the cyclists that they fear that some day violence will break out.

-Sue

The really crazy thing is that it is over a little bit of slowing down.... It's very odd, but sometimes otherwise reasonable, rational people become raging, thoughtless monsters when they get behind the wheel of a car.... I think it may have been Bob Moiske (the guy who writes the legal column in Bicycling) that talked about how the car in American society is a symbol of personal freedom - you can go where ever you want, but often the reality is that you are sitting in traffic and rushing from obligation to obligation. It's not freedom at all...... When the reality doesn't fit the dream people become irrational and angry.

I do more of my riding in the city, but experience some of the same craziness in the here (with even less purpose as there is always an opportunity to pass within 30 seconds or less) - people who get soooooo mad if they can't get around you (or must *gasp*, turn their steering wheel a little) to get to the next red light quicker. Not that they don't fume and grumble if they get caught behind a bus or if someone wants to make a left hand turn, or someone wants to cross the street, but the problem is that cyclists are vulnerable and for some reason it is socially acceptable to blame everything on us and to threaten us. You probably wouldn't find anyone willing to try to side swipe a city bus (or on a country road a motorhome) to teach it a lesson... nor would it be particularly acceptable to rev ones engine at little Billy and Suzie in the crosswalk, but many motorists are perfectly fine with doing pretty dangerous and despicable things around cyclists. It's like the playground - the bigger kids think its just fine to bully the small ones and most people turn a blind eye.

I just get tired of it. Speed limits are just that, upper limits, not the slowest one is allowed to travel. Non motorized transportation has just as much right to use the roads as cars do (and yes even if you don't own a car your taxes still pay for the roads - in WA state at least, it is property tax that pays for most of the local roads, so you can be car free and you are still paying your fair share - in fact with the damage cars do to roads those who choose to not use them are subsidizing those who do...). No one has the right to endanger another person, just because their presence means you have to slow down for a little while.

[Biciclista]

Great POST EDEN! you ought to send it to a newspaper!

The really crazy thing is that it is over a little bit of slowing down.... It's very odd, but sometimes otherwise reasonable, rational people become raging, thoughtless monsters when they get behind the wheel of a car.... I think it may have been Bob Moiske (the guy who writes the legal column in Bicycling) that talked about how the car in American society is a symbol of personal freedom - you can go where ever you want, but often the reality is that you are sitting in traffic and rushing from obligation to obligation. It's not freedom at all...... When the reality doesn't fit the dream people become irrational and angry.

I do more of my riding in the city, but experience some of the same craziness in the here (with even less purpose as there is always an opportunity to pass within 30 seconds or less) - people who get soooooo mad if they can't get around you (or must *gasp*, turn their steering wheel a little) to get to the next red light quicker. Not that they don't fume and grumble if they get caught behind a bus or if someone wants to make a left hand turn, or someone wants to cross the street, but the problem is that cyclists are vulnerable and for some reason it is socially acceptable to blame everything on us and to threaten us. You probably wouldn't find anyone willing to try to side swipe a city bus (or on a country road a motorhome) to teach it a lesson... nor would it be particularly acceptable to rev ones engine at little Billy and Suzie in the crosswalk, but many motorists are perfectly fine with doing pretty dangerous and despicable things around cyclists. It's like the playground - the bigger kids think its just fine to bully the small ones and most people turn a blind eye.

I just get tired of it. Speed limits are just that, upper limits, not the slowest one is allowed to travel. Non motorized transportation has just as much right to use the roads as cars do (and yes even if you don't own a car your taxes still pay for the roads - in WA state at least, it is property tax that pays for most of the local roads, so you can be car free and you are still paying your fair share - in fact with the damage cars do to roads those who choose to not use them are subsidizing those who do...). No one has the right to endanger another person, just because their presence means you have to slow down for a little while.

[ginny]

I lived in Co for 7 years - just moved away a few months ago. When I lived there, I drove into town (lived 37mi out of town in the mtns) and went on road rides with friends in town. I have seen both sides of the coin, and agree with others here that a) there is heated conflict in Co between bikes and cars, b) some in cars forget that those riding bikes are humans - they seem to confuse them with targets or something, c) some bicyclists after being abused by those in cars a number of times are becoming aggressive and 'clogging' roads on purpose. I have seen my friends do it.

It seems to me this is a classic example of a lack of communication. If we could all somehow sit down together and explain that it's just not safe to zip past a cyclist in a small passing zone (thus explaining the finger gestures in the general direction of said motorist), and that it's not polite to hold up traffic if it is possible to ride single file, perhaps we could all get along. Having said that, there will always be jerks on both sides. I see the situation getting worse, and short of some sort of outreach program (and let's face it, those rarely work), we cyclists will have to set an example by being overly polite, and when we drive, we can set an example by giving bicycles plenty of space and passing only when it is safe. Perhaps a letter writing campaign to local news papers?

[smilingcat]

Eden makes perfect sense to me.

The problem we are facing in our society is that we are getting polarized over everything. Read The big sort It was ranked #1 on amazon a while ago.

So with that as a background, we will see more and more of these kind of discourse. We have become a nation of intolerance.

Those who bike (us) vs those who do not bike (them)
Those who believe in global warming vs those who think its liberal crock
Those who believe in complete market freedom (Ayn Rand believers) and those who believe in government oversight...

Some think Democrats are un-American some think Republicans are the new fascists and so on. US legislature is frozen in this polarized climate and can only agree to squabble over really stupid things like is Pres. Obama an American Citizen or not (birthers)? This over looming healthcare, over looming national debt and fiscal crisis, JOBS...

So the bike issues they-do or they-don't belong on the road debate will get more heated unfortunately like everything else with zero chance of agreement or compromises.

[Kathi]

Well said Eden. I learned to drive in SW Ohio in a very rural area near the Indiana border. We used to joke that our high school was in the middle of a corn field. The roads were 2 lane and narrow with lots of farm equipment. We were taught to be patient (hard for a 16 yro even in the 60's) and that you could pass when it was safe. If there was no passing zone you just stayed behind them until there was one or they pulled off. Even our school bus had to follow slowly behind them! We used to walk and ride our bicycles on them. In that same area there are now conflicts with motorists and bicyclists.

We toured Wisconsin, Minn. and Iowa in June. I felt the same principles that I grew up with applied with the motorists. Every driver gave us space and slowed down until it was safe to pass. Granted, the young guys in their big ford trucks had to rev the engines and make a lot of noise when they passed but they passed safely.

Many of areas in the Midwest have Amish who travel by horse and buggy. A motorist wouldn't dare hit them with a car yet their mode of transportation isn't much different than bicycles they're just bigger and slower than bicycles.

One of the reasons I don't ride Deer Creek Canyon is because even when I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing I get treated poorly by the motorists. In my neighborhood here in Denver the majority of the drivers are very courteous. IMHO, bike lanes and paths have done a lot to facilitate this.

[TrekTheKaty]

Haha! I love it when they put "share the road signs" up on some narrow, no-shoulder, high-speed, busy road--like that makes it OK!

[OakLeaf]

I like it even better when the "share the road" signs have been run over by cars...

[kfergos]

I like it even better when the "share the road" signs have been run over by cars...

Then there's another take on "share the road":

[Tuckervill]

Andrea, if you want to ride your bike through Shelby Farms on Walnut Grove, how do you get through the part where bikes are banned?

It's Union Ave. that changes directions, Mr. I think Andrea was talking about Shelby Farms. Not that I would ride my bike on Walnut Grove. Or Union Ave. Or anywhere there are Memphis drivers, for that matter.

Karen