Tales from the LBS.... When the day starts like this you KNOW your in trouble..

[Crankin]

I agree with Lisa. Today I went to a bike shop (I don't go to one very often, since DH does all mechanics in our house) to buy gloves. I did not go to the shop where I bought my bike, but to another one that is just as close and my son used to work there. As I was perusing the gloves, I heard a young sales guy showing a man a bike. The man had a paper with what looked like a print out from the web. The sales guy said, "This bike has Tiagra components. You might want to think about that." This got no response from the customer, so the sales guy says, "Tiagra components don't have a good reputation and can break (or something like that). I doubt the customer knew what a component was. Then, not sure what the customer looked at or said, since my back was turned, but i hear the sales guy say, "Oh, you'd have colors just like Astana..." This was met by silence. Sales guy says, "You know, Astana, the team that won the TdF..."
More silence. The customer left.

[TrekJeni]

Sorry Running Mommy - I'll buy you a beer at Interbike, how's that?

Geoff's got a HUGE metal sign up on the outside of the shop that reads something like this: Attention all Department Store Bicycle Owners, we require a 50% deposit on all work.
He was sick and tired of all the walmart stuff accumulating in the warehouse when people refused to pick it up even though they had been given an itemized estimate BEFORE they were allowed to drop it off.

Geoff also deals with CM mentality in the fact that as he is the general manager at age 24, and has been coming to work with his dad (family owned shop) since he was in diapers and wrenching on bikes since he was eight, he has a hard time getting respect from some of the older generation. His dad has to come out and finish the sale....

A few months ago they had a engineer (it seems to always be the engineers here in Cincinnati that are the problem) they thought he could fix everything and because his bike was mis-shifting, took the cassette off and looked at it under a microscope. He determined that the cassette needed to be replaced. All it needed was a barrel adjustment!

LBS's should write a book!

Jeni

[Triskeliongirl]

I think the problem with refusing to work on department store bikes is the customers never get educated. For example, my hairdresser just thought their refusal to service his bike was 'snotty' and 'elitist'. I tried to explain to him that it was not cost ineffecient to repair them, so the shop just didn't want to deal with it, plus there were safety/liability concerns if the bikes failed once they left the shop. But, I still think that if instead of saying no, you explain very clearly to the customer what it would cost to repair, and why it still might not perform as expected, you end up with more new customers than by being rude or posting a sign on the door 'no department store bikes.'

But there is something about the tone of this thread I don't like that does smack of elitism. So what if the customer doesn't know its called a seatpost, or can't understand the technical problem with his wheels? That doesn't make him a caveman. It just makes him a customer who happens to not be as knowledgable about bikes as we all are.

I really don't think the way the OP was treated was about sexism. I think she was just talking to him at a level he couldn't understand, whereas the shop employee, who happened to be a man, was able to explain it to him at a level he could understand. But, I could be wrong, I wasn't there, so its just a thought.

[shootingstar]

Triskenlion: Perhaps the difference of some males (not all) who are deliberately rude if he is confused, is to look at it differently:

if the customer had been a female customer instead, many women most likely would look blankly in befuddlement and ask outright for further explanation. Or ask 'please show me what you are talking about..'

[crazycanuck]

RM-I understood what you meant & certainly have my stories to tell from when i worked in retail.

Feel free to post your rants on my facebook page

I guess many folks don't understand the stories posted over at the customer is not always right..

[Crankin]

I didn't think there was anything wrong, either. Frankly, I wish I had a shop where people would explain stuff. Like I said, I have no need to go to a shop, since I shop at TE or Terry and DH does mechanics. I sometimes wonder what would happen if I had decided to get into cycling if I was single. I have no mechanical ability and I even need someone to help me readjust my helmet straps when they get too loose. Can you imagine if I went into a shop asking for help with that every month or so? While I know a lot about how bikes work now, the "fancy" shop where I bought my bike didn't seem to know anything about short and shallow bars or short reach brifters... it still makes me mad that I had to do the research for that, even though they gave me a new, smaller frame for "free" after 2 years of riding a bike that was too big.
The fact that every time I went into the shop and saw people I knew, probably helped me in the long run. I think the owner thought I was a stupid woman, who only did what her husband told her. However, when several local racers were in the shop and knew me (from when my son raced), he must have observed, and realized I would blab my big mouth all over town about his bad service.
Irulan, there is a Minuteman Bike Path rant??? I guess this is why I don't go on it..

[Thorn]

Loved the story RM--made me very happy to sit at my computer and not have to deal with people that day I wouldn't have had 1/2 the patience you exhibited. Really.

As for such stories making newbies feel bad? Heck no. Every time I go into the bike shop I know that I'm potential joke fodder--sometimes it is even immediate and I get to share in the joke.

Whenever we learn something new, we're going to make mistakes. Take for example, learning a new language--you will say the wrong thing and the receiver may chuckle at you. Anything new is the same way. If you don't step in knowing you'll say or do the wrong thing and provide entertainment value, you'll never learn.

What's the alternative--waiting until you've got enough book knowledge to pretend? Eeks. Where's the fun in that?

No, Tales from the LBS doesn't just entertain. They help us all but pointing out how easy it is to make a mistake, how not to be a consumer, and, well, in this case, why some days your LBS welcomes you with open arms and other days they all run to the back room when you open the door.

[kenyonchris]

But there is something about the tone of this thread I don't like that does smack of elitism. So what if the customer doesn't know its called a seatpost, or can't understand the technical problem with his wheels? That doesn't make him a caveman. It just makes him a customer who happens to not be as knowledgable about bikes as we all are.
.

I don't *think* anyone (RunningMom or anyone else) was being elitist at all. I think anyone who posts here, asks advice here, vents here, reads and posts here is not wholeheartedly aware that somewhere someone knows more. Otherwise, we wouldn't be here, right?
It is all about tones, body language, and circumstance. You can't see that in a post. Remember my post about my unfortunate bike and the ladies that were so obnoxious? Was I irritated because they choose to wear those funny fake nails, carry expensive accessories, eschew dirty legs and sweat and complain about a "funny noise"? No...I was irritated because they would NOT listen to the cause of the funny noise (cross chaining and poor gear selection, from the look of the bike it had about 5 miles on it), they gave me the holier than thou look, and ordered the mechanic around like he was a kitchen maid.
Do I judge? You better believe it. Maybe the Caveman was having a bad day, maybe those women were really St. Elizabeth and St. Mary in disguise, but I doubt it. How people treat others is judgeable.

[TrekTheKaty]

What a bummer. Did you write the Best of Craig's List, Letter from the bike shop? We laughed so hard--then showed it to my BIL. He frowned and said, "I think this is me?!"

We buy the occasional accessory online, but make a habit of purchasing from our local bike shop--because when you need it NOW, you'll be glad they're there.

A business associate just expressed interest in buying a bike. I told him lots of fun stories to encourage him to give it a try. Then he explicitly asked where to buy a bike. "Anywhere except WalMart or any other big box store." I explained they are inferior quality and frequently put together wrong. He said, "but they are name brands? My kids bikes are from WalMart are perfectly safe." Time to walk away. (Pet peeve--don't ask if you don't want my advice.)

Cavemen: Try the aviation industry. Planes don't know you're a girl, but most boys can't deal with a female captain. It's too hard on their very big, fragile ego.

Bleeker: Thanks, I'll have to try that.

Running Mommy--you posted while I was typing. Sorry to hear that you no longer feel that you can vent here. I didn't think you were out of line, but try this: http://www.craigslist.org/about/best...192150038.html I don't think the people you were referring to will end up here, but.......

[SadieKate]

I think that craig's list post is what Irulan already posted.

[Running Mommy]

Trisk-
It was not being ELITIST at all. The caveman reference was to the fact that when I explained the tube situation to him he tuned me out and then got snotty and acused me of not answering his question. But when my male counterpart explained it to him using the exact words I did, he suddenly tuned back in and changed his tone with him.
It was the fact that I had the distinct feeling that he had an attitude towards me because I was a woman. Even my mgr agreed. He actually was the one to refer to his attitude as that of a caveman.

And as for just generally not being elitist or speaking down to someone, or using to much shop speak.
I really take my time to get to know my customer. Figure out how much they know or don't about cycling. I ask a lot of questions.
For people that are completely new I actually show them what a "drive train" or Derailluer is by pointing it out. I try not to overwhelm them with too much knowledge, but also want them to know what to look for when shopping for a bike.
Now people that are cyclists and are upgrading I go a bit more in depth with.
I always hated the way I was treated in bike shops, so I try to be careful about how I interact with people.

Ok. After getting some PM's suggesting that my post was out of line, or may not be so good for business, I am going to let this thread go now. And I think this is the last edition of "tales from the lbs".
Maybe I will just journal them and write a book someday.

carry on folks.

[kenyonchris]

Trisk-
It was not being ELITIST at all. The caveman reference was to the fact that when I explained the tube situation to him he tuned me out and then got snotty and acused me of not answering his question. But when my male counterpart explained it to him using the exact words I did, he suddenly tuned back in and changed his tone with him.
It was the fact that I had the distinct feeling that he had an attitude towards me because I was a woman. Even my mgr agreed. He actually was the one to refer to his attitude as that of a caveman.

And as for just generally not being elitist or speaking down to someone, or using to much shop speak.
I really take my time to get to know my customer. Figure out how much they know or don't about cycling. I ask a lot of questions.
For people that are completely new I actually show them what a "drive train" or Derailluer is by pointing it out. I try not to overwhelm them with too much knowledge, but also want them to know what to look for when shopping for a bike.
Now people that are cyclists and are upgrading I go a bit more in depth with.
I always hated the way I was treated in bike shops, so I try to be careful about how I interact with people.

Ok. After getting some PM's suggesting that my post was out of line, or may not be so good for business, I am going to let this thread go now. And I think this is the last edition of "tales from the lbs".
Maybe I will just journal them and write a book someday.

carry on folks.

I liked your story. It is why I read this, in addition to getting great help and support. Please write more...I got you (and I bet most everyone else did too).

[Kris]

I liked the story too. And I don't know much about bikes, especially by the standards of these boards. I have met the occasional caveman, though, and it seemed to me the story was more about sexism than bicycle ignorance.

However, as a relative newcomer to the world of bicycling, I was mentally composing something of a rebuttal as I read it. Since you said to carry on, I'm going to. I've been frustrated by my LBS's here recently. One sold us a POJ (piece of junk) that we could just as well bought at WW. He's been bought out, and his successor told us it was a POJ when we brought it in to be repaired. Great. Apparently I still need to be an informed customer, and I don't have a clue how to go about getting informed. (Well, I do have one clue. I'm reading here. It's a slow process, though, when I don't even know what questions to ask. And a fair amount of what I read is right over my head.)
The other shop just doesn't seem very interested. One of my husband's students who works there said that every time the shop gets really busy, the owner leaves. People say, "Don't go there. They only care about people with $3000 bikes."

I'm wondering how many of you shop at big box stores for things other than bikes?

[witeowl]

I liked the story as well. I was a bit offended by parts of the CL rant. (And very grateful to know that there are many LBS owners who are less, well, judgmental.) There were numerous differences between your story and that rant. If you were like the CL guy, then I'd also suggest you keep your stories elsewhere. As is... well... I'm going to be sad at the thought of not getting to enjoy similar stories from you.

[kenyonchris]

I'm wondering how many of you shop at big box stores for things other than bikes?

I would rather be transported straight to hell than set foot in WalMart. It is like a third world country. I don't do badly behaved children, and for some reason every badly behaved child in the county flocks to WalMart with their indifferent parents. My children would be fitted for pine boxes if they even thought of behaving like WalMart children (and they know it).
I can shop at Target during non-prime hours for groceries and general stuff without too much angst.

(Back on Topic) An area LBS here (actually where I took my broken Colnago) tends to be pretty condescending. I find it frustrating, so I don't go there unless I have to. At the same time, I understand they deal with people with WalMart bikes on a regular basis.
My SO is really picky about anyone touching his bike. He DOES know what he is talking about, is probably a more experienced cyclist than most the bike shop people, but is very, very quiet about it (he doesn't advertise that knowledge. I think he is superman, he doesn't). It really doesn't sit will with him to have his bike tossed around like these bike shop guys do (it is a number, a tag, and a will-call-you). But, fact is, it is the best bike shop in town in terms of experienced mechanics and stock. He makes his point by being very picky about how things are done, and puts the guys feet to the fire if it isn't done right. They could stick my derailleur on upside down and I am not sure I would notice it until I got it home. I assume the know what they are doing, so they do it.