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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    204
    Quote Originally Posted by withm View Post
    Hmmm there seems to be a sense of entitlement that slower cyclits, pedestrians, dogs, whoever are required to give way to the the faster ones.
    ...
    My advice is to stay off the multiuse path at all costs!
    I haven't seen any post that reeks of a sense of entitlement, which makes me wonder if it's my post, and even that can't be what you mean. A multi-use path is just that: a multi-use path. I deserve to be there just as much as anyone else; I just need to recognize that they have the same right to be there and treat them with respect. (And, yeah, I know the OT wasn't MUPs, but it was a semi-related issue.)

    In another related situation, when hiking on a multi-use trail, I always yield to horses and know that bikes are always supposed to yield to me (that one actually is "legislated"). But it seems silly because they can travel faster so we hikers tend to yield to them out of courtesy.

    This whole thread is about courtesy.

    Just as I expect a slower car to be in the right hand or middle lane on a multi-lane freeway, I expect a slower pedestrian, cyclist, or skateboarder to hang out on the right. Lord knows I'm that slower cyclist often enough!

    Kids and animals are the exceptions, of course, because they don't know the rules of the road.

    (Oh, and when I come up on a slower car in the "fast lane", I do flash my lights. If they do the courteous thing and move to the right, they've saved me (and countless others) from doing a more dangerous thing by passing on the right. I'm never in the leftmost lane unless I'm passing someone. That's a holdover from my parents (who learned on the Autobahn), and I can only wish it were a more common driving attitude.)

    @sspoor, to clarify my original answer: In my opinion, "On your left" primarily is a heads up warning; it only means I should move to the right if I'm doing something wrong by being too far out or riding/walking two abreast. I tend to move to the right if I can out of an abundance of courtesy, though.
    Fall down six times, get up seven.
    My Blog/Journal: Fat Athlete

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    2,841
    My sister has gotten a ticket for coming up behind someone and flashing her lights...

    While in general, I do pass on the left - and that's probably because I was taught to drive by my father who learned to drive in europe.... There are no actual laws that say you can't pass on your right in most states and most people weren't taught to drive by foreign parents, so expecting someone to get out of your way when it's clear to your right because you blinked your lights at them could be misunderstood.

    I generally will just come up behind someone and keep a somewhat closer distance than they probably want, and hopefully they will then give way... if they don't, I'll pass on the right if it's clear.

    Someone can look up the state laws if they want - I have no idea which percentage have pass on your left laws vs. not - but haven't had such in the states I've lived in.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Carrollton, TX
    Posts
    13
    Whiteowl--I'm with you. When someone says "on your left" to me, it's a piece of information to alert me to their position. Sometimes it's because I was daydreaming and had drifted out. As a general rule, both when driving and cycling, I tend to stay to the right. It's not worth getting into an altercation with an angry driver and it's just plain courteous. And yes, I think we've worked ourselves around to the conclusion that it is all about common courtesy.
    "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming, 'Wow, what a ride!!!'"

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Concord, MA
    Posts
    13,394
    When I lived in AZ, it was the common practice to flash your lights if A) you wanted the person to move over to the right lane, so you could pass or B)they were waiting to move into your lane, in front of you and your flashing indicated it was safe for them to do so. Whether this is law or not, I don't know.
    If you flash your lights at someone in MA they either don't know what this means or why you are doing this, pretend not to know and drive even slower to piss you off, or yell swear words at you.
    The law for cyclists changed here in June. We are now allowed to ride side by side, if conditions permit. Unfortunately, most of the group rides I have been on since then have been hell. Most of the riders take the law to mean they can block the whole lane, with no regard to anyone else. When my DH yelled at a rider to fall in line last Saturday and move over to let a car by, he started screaming at my DH that the law had changed. Well, yeah, who is going to win this contest, you or a 3,000 pound car?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    1,058
    Quote Originally Posted by Crankin View Post
    If you flash your lights at someone in MA they either don't know what this means or why you are doing this, pretend not to know and drive even slower to piss you off, or yell swear words at you.
    Gotta love those east coast drivers. Got stuck in a round-a-bout in MA once--I learned some new words
    "Well-behaved women seldom make history." --Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

    '09 Trek WSD 2.1 with a Brooks B-68 saddle
    '11 Trek WSD Madone 5.2 with Brooks B-17

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    1,058
    sspoor, yes we did drift off here--but that was also interesting.

    My vote is: letting me know you're there. If I'm riding two abreast, I will move over to accommodate you, so you can pass safely (courtesy). If I'm riding single file--I will hold my line and pace until you've passed.

    Everyone summed it up well, but now I'll tell my story. On my first century, we slowed to allow an "official" looking club to get ahead of us. HUGE MISTAKE. Lesson learned: Just because they have matching jerseys doesn't mean they know what they are doing, are in good shape or are faster than me (I frequently underestimate myself on a bike--no more)! We promptly entered a narrow, hilly, bike path. The lead group quickly slowed to a crawl and began stopping haphazardly in the middle of the trail. I reached a point where I felt I could pass safely and yelled "on your left" and pulled out. As I did, a rider behind me said "on your left," but quickly said "sorry" when he realized I wasn't the problem and was making forward progress. I was committed and couldn't pull back in or stop without wrecking. I made a mental note to thank this cyclist for not running me over when we he finally passed me on the other side. However, he humbly rode my wheel for quick some time after that, and I never identified the mystery man. I do believe his "ON YOUR LEFT" was initially an aggravated command to move, but he realized the error in his ways and he pulled in behind me--which was the correct action, IMHO.
    Last edited by TrekTheKaty; 07-17-2009 at 04:09 PM.
    "Well-behaved women seldom make history." --Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

    '09 Trek WSD 2.1 with a Brooks B-68 saddle
    '11 Trek WSD Madone 5.2 with Brooks B-17

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    561
    Quote Originally Posted by witeowl View Post

    (Oh, and when I come up on a slower car in the "fast lane", I do flash my lights. If they do the courteous thing and move to the right, they've saved me (and countless others) from doing a more dangerous thing by passing on the right. I'm never in the leftmost lane unless I'm passing someone. That's a holdover from my parents (who learned on the Autobahn), and I can only wish it were a more common driving attitude.)
    Yeah, don't do this. It is, in fact illegal (in Texas and in most states)...you must have your lights on dim within 300 feet when approaching from the rear and 500 feet when approaching head on. It is far safer to pass on the left, but, trust me, flashing lights confuse people.

    And bicycles are not supposed to impede traffic. I regard that as impeding all traffic...other bicycle traffic included. If riding two abreast is impeding traffic, it is illegal. It is permitted if it does not cause a problem, which apparently it did for you. However, unless you have the luxury of a badge and a ticket book, there is not much you can do except follow, mutter under your breath, and wait until you can pass safely and legally.

    BTW, you CAN (and technically are supposed to) use your horn (or bell or voice) and give a light BEEP BEEP as a signal that you are passing. Of course, no one does this, but it is a permitted use of the horn (one of the most satisfying tickets I wrote in a long time is to a jerk who decided to HONK at a cop friend of mine who was directing traffic off-duty...he was in uniform at a busy church intersection and the jerk didn't like the way he was doing it...I strolled along in my car and at the right time and was able to pull the guy over, and wrote him for improper use of the horn).

 

 

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