Ranting about stupid dog ownership

[Tuckervill]

I'm not going to take the time to google up links,(you can do that yourself if you want) but the statistics are out there that housecats hunt for the kill, not to eat. When was the last time that you saw a cat actually EAT what it KILLED? They don't, they play with them, then leave them lying around, preferably on the door step.

My cats eat the heads of the birds when they kill them. :P

But they don't kill enough to even come CLOSE to decimating the bird population.

There are always way way more birds alive and flittering around than there are dead on the ground or in a cat's stomach.

Karen

[Eden]

I'm not going to take the time to google up links,(you can do that yourself if you want) but the statistics are out there that housecats hunt for the kill, not to eat. When was the last time that you saw a cat actually EAT what it KILLED? They don't, they play with them, then leave them lying around, preferably on the door step.

When I had outdoor cats, like I said they never got anything bigger than tiny field mice and they always ate them. We'd only know they got one if we saw then with it or if we found the little stomachs around. They didn't like that bit, but everything else was eaten.

Cats who bring things to your door think you are stupid and incapable of feeding yourself... they are bringing you prey so that you can eat and/or learn to hunt....

[Cataboo]

Cats often play - and often that wounds birds and cats don't have clean wounds. I'm not going to argue it, studies have been done which show that cats, not being a native part of the local food chain do decimate bird and small mammal populations - you can look at the links I posted which do link to independent studies of what effect cats have on the native wildlife and cats do contribute to the decline in bird populations. Yes, there are a lot of other factors that contribute to the decline in bird populations... But the term I used was part of the decline. Not are solely responsible for.

And the number of people that claim "oh my cat doesn't eat/kill birds" is just silly.

No raccoons in my Mom's yard (least never been seen in the last 30 odd years) - the cats which hang out underneath the bushes right next to the ponds are a slight indication that they're the ones going after the fish - ocassionally a deer will fall in the pond, but it's usually fairly obvious when that's happened and there's fish death from that.

[Eden]

Just because you haven't seen them, doesn't mean that raccoons are not in the yard.... They are everywhere and plenty of them too. I've only seen them once or twice, but their destructive habits I've had plenty of. They love water and they love fish. Cats may enjoy fishies, but they don't generally like water. Unless the pond is extremely tiny and shallow or the fish congregate at the edges waiting to be caught something else is likely doing the fishing. Around here people also have problems with herons visiting their koi ponds.

[MartianDestiny]

... you can look at the links I posted which do link to independent studies of what effect cats have on the native wildlife and cats do contribute to the decline in bird populations...

Ok, I looked at all three links. NONE of them show a scientific study and NONE of them cite their sources. I'm sorry, but I'm a trained scientist and these articles might as well be pulling numbers out of their rear-ends as far as I'm concerned. And I'm not convinced they are independent (I'm inclined to think they are all "quoting" Kress and not giving him credit, but I could be wrong of course.)

The link to Steve Kress' article in the Audubon magazine is the most credible being that he does have a PhD in Environmental Studies (I had to go dig for that info). But, he should know better. There's no mention of how he came to the number of deaths from cats (but he did say how he got to the number of cats in the US and how he got to the number of window/glass deaths...). I'd loose my job and get kicked out of grad school if I tried to pass off something like that as scientific (and honestly he probably wasn't trying to, but he should cite or link to the scientific work as well). The info would never get through a peer reviewed journal like that, but unfortunately he's a scientist so it's automatically credible to the public even when it's not credible. IMO, that's an abuse of the trust put into scientists and it makes me ill. (I'll resend that last statement if he in fact has published a peer reviewed scientific work with his data on this).

In the end I'm not arguing that cats do not contribute at all. And in fact I agree with you that the vast majority of cats should be kept indoors and confined when outdoors.

In fact here's a scientific article that actually agrees with your point, ranking cats as potentially equal to glass strikes in deaths (however, they still don't cite or explain the data behind cat deaths (at least in the intro where it is mentioned)...so I still don't "trust" the information, though I'm more inclined to believe it's plausible):
http://www.muhlenberg.edu/depts/biol...ent%202004.pdf

[Selkie]

My golden retrievers catch and kill birds. I've caught them in the act. True to their nature, I guess, as goldens are "huntin' dogs!" But they don't bite humans....

Ironically, the next door neighbor has a virtual bird sanctuary in their backyard but no shrubs/trees for bird roosting. So they come to our yard (shurbs galore and a huge old oak). This neighbor has an indoor cat--guess all the feeders are for his entertainment. Well, in addition to our dogs taking out these birds, several free-roaming neighborhood pet (not feral) felines kill them.

I may have inadvertently saved a cat this morning when I was riding my bike. My headlight scared off a fox, who was stealthily heading in a cat's direction.

[Aggie_Ama]

My in-laws black lab kills birds, snakes (good doggie they are taking the chicken eggs), possums, squirrels, he is such a hunter we won't bring our 9 lb schnauzer over. Their cat just watches the birds. We have a bird bath which has become the neighborhood cat napping place but I have yet to see the cats win. I have seen the martens attack the cats though.

[Deborajen]

You know, with all the threads on this forum about pets - showing off our pets, sharing stories, grieving for lost pets - I'm really disappointed and some of the downright hateful remarks on this thread.

As far as stupid/obnoxious pet behavior always being tracked back to a human? My neighbor's Rottweiler snapped at a few of the neighbor kids. The reason? His brain had grown too big for his skull, and he was in awful pain. The neighbors put him to sleep. I'm sure they, or others in a similar position, would love to have their noses rubbed in it.

Although my cats have never been outside to kill a bird, for play or for food, they can kill all the mice in the house that they want - I don't care if it's just for sport.

Back to the OP, Dogmama, try not to be too hard on your friend. It's probably best that she took Joey back soon. It's probably best that she not have a shelter pet at all. Poor Joey is probably scared to death. No wonder he barked at all the dogs at the vet's office - He's been bounced around. Who knows what all he's been through? And the vet's office probably smelled like the shelter and was a nightmare for him. But my heart aches for Joey. I hope he finds someone who can give him the extra love he needs.

And I'm extra sensitive right now. On Saturday, our beloved Siberian Husky, Leia, went over the rainbow bridge. We had to have her put to sleep, and my heart is broken into a million pieces right now. We don't know if she suffered more than she let us know or if it happened suddenly and mercifully.

Lighten up, people.

[OakLeaf]

((((((((Deborajen & family))))))))

I'm so sorry for your loss. Give yourself permission to grieve, knowing that in time the happy memories will outweigh your present pain.

[lucky]

tell him never do this again. if he cant take responsibility of a dog how he care his relations..

[salsabike]

You know, with all the threads on this forum about pets - showing off our pets, sharing stories, grieving for lost pets - I'm really disappointed and some of the downright hateful remarks on this thread.

As far as stupid/obnoxious pet behavior always being tracked back to a human? My neighbor's Rottweiler snapped at a few of the neighbor kids. The reason? His brain had grown too big for his skull, and he was in awful pain. The neighbors put him to sleep. I'm sure they, or others in a similar position, would love to have their noses rubbed in it.

Although my cats have never been outside to kill a bird, for play or for food, they can kill all the mice in the house that they want - I don't care if it's just for sport.

Back to the OP, Dogmama, try not to be too hard on your friend. It's probably best that she took Joey back soon. It's probably best that she not have a shelter pet at all. Poor Joey is probably scared to death. No wonder he barked at all the dogs at the vet's office - He's been bounced around. Who knows what all he's been through? And the vet's office probably smelled like the shelter and was a nightmare for him. But my heart aches for Joey. I hope he finds someone who can give him the extra love he needs.

And I'm extra sensitive right now. On Saturday, our beloved Siberian Husky, Leia, went over the rainbow bridge. We had to have her put to sleep, and my heart is broken into a million pieces right now. We don't know if she suffered more than she let us know or if it happened suddenly and mercifully.

Lighten up, people.

Thanks for all of this post, Deborajen. And I'm very sorry about Leia. It's such hard stuff.

[badger]

Firstly, I'm sor sorry to hear about Leia. It's always so so hard to say goodbye.

****

I've sat back and watched the thread morph into something rather nasty, and I'm actually quite sad about it. It always catches me by surprise when I find certain people that I had respect for say rather crude and pointed remarks.

We're so quick to judge other species or certain breeds doing bad things when all we have to do is look at the human race and see all the damage we've done to the planet and all things on it. WE created the pit bull, WE created domesticated cats. WE destroy habitats. WE've made animals and plants extinct.

We shouldn't take one brush and paint one particular breed or species the same colour. Every animal and plant is unique and while there are similarities, they are not all the same.

I don't think there's ever going to be an argument or a line of thought that everyone agrees to. And everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but it just shocks me to see some people who I had respect for make outright comments that really aren't warranted.

[PamNY]

Deborajen, I'm so sorry you lost Leia. It's always hard to lose a family member.

I don't think this thread is so terrible. In my bulldog group the co-moderator calls them "spirited discussions" (even when she's shutting them down) and I think that's a good description.

Whether negative or positive, relationships with animals arouse strong feelings, and that's just reality. I enjoyed reading the discussion about outdoor cats, and I like reading dog breed-specific discussions because I want to know what people think, even if I don't agree with them. As I mentioned upthread, I do think keeping discussions constructive is better because it's more educational, but it's not realistic to expect that all the time.

I have been thinking a lot lately about what humans do to birds. I've been watching a red-tailed hawk nest which started with three babies. The nest is in a park bisected by a busy highway, and the juvenile hawks don't yet fly high enough to be 100% safe crossing the highway. Some of my fellow hawk watchers have been frantically trying to get "slow" signs put up on the highway, and more enforcement of the speed limit. Heartbroken as I am over the loss of the two beautiful youngsters, I think those responses are just an emotional desire to "fix" something that can't be fixed. If red-tails nest in New York City, they are going to face risks, just as they would in the woods.

[Dogmama]

Why should that be tongue in cheek? Don't want to make the kitty owners mad? I detest the neighborhood cats that run free in my neighborhood. They are unlicensed, untagged, they go after the birds that nest in my yard, they use my garden beds as a toilet...

What she said!!!!

Around here, cats eventually turn into coyote food. Very sad to see "lost" posters when you know what happened.

My vet says indoor cats are seen for usual stuff - shots, maybe a UTI. Outdoor cats catch all kinds of stuff.

My cat is STRICTLY indoors. He loves it & doesn't try to go outside. I adopted him from the humane society many years ago & suspect that he's had his share of camping out. He was full of scratches from fighting. Apparently, he wasn't that good

[Dogmama]

This dog was not high energy, oddly enough. My friend just changed her mind. She's stupid, inconsiderate and has no heart. Dogs are for life. Another poster said something I loved - dogs are not shoes. You don't bring them home, find out they don't match your furniture & take them back. It's a living being, fer-cryin-out-loud. This dog was picked up as a stray, so there was zero information. I went with her to the humane society initially to evaluate this dog. (I have 25 years of dog training experience, so I know a little bit about behavior.) This dog was a sweetheart. I watched her sit & wag her little tail when other dogs walked by. She was curious but not obnoxious at all. She did not show fear to other people or children. Her leash manners were good.

This dog freaked at being taken back to the humane society. Another poster said that this was a good reason to put it down. Oh really??? Go to any vet's office & watch the freaked out dogs. I close my case.

During the week she had the dog, the dog did not soil her house, chew anything or bark excessively. She did dig, but it's over 100 degrees right now. I had offered obedience lessons, but during that time she had her "conversation" with her vet who told her that this dog was a vicious pit bull, would turn on her and needed to be returned immediately. My "friend" knows nothing about breeds. I told her to google pit bull & look at the picture. She didn't, because she didn't want to "get confused."

OK, enough of this. I'm going to ride my bike. I can tell it's going to be hills at full-tilt-boogie today. I have some emotions to work out.