My Motorist Exchange...

[Mr. Bloom]

Besides, I actually feel "miss" is a rather dismissive term, as in, "Don't you worry your little head about that, miss."

Me too!

I won't even tell you what association I have with the word "Madam" (unless I'm in France).

I don't buy that its a regional difference - as a kid, visiting family in New England, all their friends marveled at my use of the word "sir" and "ma'am"...so to the New Englander's, I'm sharing my own life experience in New England...and it further reinforced my commitment to the practice.

Anyone remember Beverly Hills Cop where Axel was being arrested

[fastdogs]

wow. I am amazed at the number of people who take offense at polite terminology. As kids, we also had to call my parents and all other adults "sir" or "ma'am". After 20 years in the army, I will continue to call people sir or ma'am when being polite. We must be the only society in the world where people get offended when you try to be polite.
When I was in Korea, one of the first things we learned was the polite way to address people. They weren't offended, even though it was the equivalent of our sir and ma'am (different for older married lady and young lady, but the male word was the same regardless of age)
So many things to be offended about, and people get offended when others try to be polite. I will continue to be polite, even knowing this, and if someone is offended by it, I will figure that's their problem.
vickie

[Eden]

wow. I am amazed at the number of people who take offense at polite terminology.

I don't take offense if a military/ex military or southern person ma'am's me. I understand that they've had it drilled into them that it is the polite thing to do and I recognize that they are not trying to insult me. That said, I still don't have to enjoy being called ma'am.

The point is that yes indeed we are not a homogenous society - ma'am is not always considered to be polite.... In fact in some places it is generally used as something of an insult if used on a younger person. While there can be understanding, it still doesn't take away the creepy feeling.

You learned the respectful terminology when you were in Korea - you didn't insist that sir and ma'am should be good enough for them since it was polite where you grew up - correct? Don't expect that everyone in places in the USA will understand that you were raised that way and don't expect that every place in the US has the same social graces and insults either. Some people - especially those who perhaps have not travelled and or have not be exposed to other ways of thinking so much may get their hackles raised quite a bit if you ma'am them and you may get a reaction similar to CC's experience.

[OakLeaf]

We must be the only society in the world where people get offended when you try to be polite.

No, you're missing my point.

Where I live, "sir" and "ma'am" are terms that people use EXCLUSIVELY when they're trying to be RUDE.

Unless they're in the military or recently discharged - which is a culture all to itself.

[PamNY]

Oakleaf, do you mind telling me what region you're talking about? I've told several friends (all living in US now but wide variety of nationalities, cultures and backgrounds) about this discussion and no one's ever heard of such objections. I do know women who assume "ma'am" has to do with age, but that's it.

Pam

[witeowl]

Where I live, "sir" and "ma'am" are terms that people use EXCLUSIVELY when they're trying to be RUDE.

May I ask where that is?

[lph]

Only just now read this thread. I think a point that seems to have been missed is that it makes no difference if you're using a term of respect or not, if you aren't showing respect. Like the teenage girl back a whole lot of posts. Then it becomes a faux show of respect, just to get out of trouble, or even to increase your show of disrespect, sarcastically.

And if you are being respectful and polite otherwise, it's not necessary to use a term of respect. The tone of voice and your manner is enough. eta: not quite true, though, I do appreciate it and have taught my son to use "please" and thank you" liberally, which strictly speaking are just niceties. But said sincerely they do reduce friction.

In Norway we have no terms like this in usage, and I can confirm that they are not necessary to get someone's attention. If I were called ma'am or miss or whatever in the States in a polite tone of voice and setting I wouldn't get offended though, just figure that it was meant well. But I would hesitate to use them myself, because I don't what the labels "mean", and it feels strange to me to use labels on strangers in the first place.

Someone calling me miss here would be over 80

[OakLeaf]

I'm in northern Appalachia. But Crankin is in Cambridge, MA, which could hardly be more different culturally.

Except, I suppose, that both regions have a pretty ingrained class consciousness, from opposite ends of the spectrum; maybe that's the common thread.

Anyway, I'm out too.

[Mr. Bloom]

Interesting footnote:

According to wikipedia:

"After addressing her as "Your Majesty," it is proper to address The Queen of the United Kingdom as "Ma'am" for the remainder of the conversation..."

[bmccasland]

Not sure where "sir" came from, in english vernicular, but "ma'am" is short for "madam", which comes from the french "madame", which directly translates to "my lady". SO in a way it is a title of respect or patronization depending on your point of view. "Sir' is the title given to Knights, but not all men were members of the chivalry.

I think the use of titles, especially in the south, is a holdover from the age of gentility and the fascination with the renaissance. It became ingrained with the idea of what someone with "good manners" "should use". And there it is today.

As many have pointed out, often however, it's not what you say, it's how you say it. With a smile or a sneer? I found moving back to the south, I fell in to using "sir" and "ma'am" more frequently as it is expected, where I didn't use them so much living out west (in Arizona and California).

Having been raised southern, and in the military, I have the biased point of view that the use of titles does show respect, and position in a pecking order. Children are not on equal basis with adults, therefore should use titles when addressing adults. And in professional, or formal settings, not all adults are equal either, so we use titles there as well.

And sometimes, when Officer Friendly is asking you why you blew the stop sign? A deep breath, and "yes sir/ma'am, "no sir/ma'am" are the only correct answers. I didn't see the sign, sir. Bunch of leaves in front of the sign, sir. Yes, there's a warning sign, I'll do better next time, sir. Deep breath.

Kenyonchris we love you and the crap you and your compatriots that walk the thin blue line put up with!

[salsabike]

Only just now read this thread. I think a point that seems to have been missed is that it makes no difference if you're using a term of respect or not, if you aren't showing respect. Like the teenage girl back a whole lot of posts. Then it becomes a faux show of respect, just to get out of trouble, or even to increase your show of disrespect, sarcastically.

And if you are being respectful and polite otherwise, it's not necessary to use a term of respect. The tone of voice and your manner is enough. eta: not quite true, though, I do appreciate it and have taught my son to use "please" and thank you" liberally, which strictly speaking are just niceties. But said sincerely they do reduce friction.

In Norway we have no terms like this in usage, and I can confirm that they are not necessary to get someone's attention. If I were called ma'am or miss or whatever in the States in a polite tone of voice and setting I wouldn't get offended though, just figure that it was meant well. But I would hesitate to use them myself, because I don't what the labels "mean", and it feels strange to me to use labels on strangers in the first place.

Someone calling me miss here would be over 80

Nice post, lph.