parenting dilemma

[Crankin]

When I was five I spent a lot of time marching around in an army uniform, playing soldier with any neighborhood boy I cold find. But, as far as I know, no one thought it was weird, even in 1958. My older son had an anatomically correct boy doll that he played with for years. We didn't make a big deal out of it and eventually, when he was 7 or so, he lost interest. He slept with his teddy bear until he went to college, at almost 19.
I agree that most kindergardeners are very curious and may ask questions, but, more likely the parents will be the ones that could say stuff. I was always amazed at the things some parents would say to me about *other* kids when they were at a parent teacher conference, supposedly about their child.

[Duck on Wheels]

I say let her wear the suit! Women do wear pant suits, ya know, and at age 6 the cut isn't going to differentiate between a girl's figure and a boy's. Do you happen to own a nice pant suit yourself that you could wear that day? Or some nice slacks and a blouse? I'm planning on wearing linen slacks and a blouse to my 60th birthday party. I haven't been very specific as to attire in the invitations and decided that my bell-bottom linen slacks and a top would be drapy enough not to make any dress wearers uncomfortable and at the same time would keep company with any pants wearers amongst the women. Also, I happen to like them and like how they look on me. A friend of mine, when preparing for her dissertation defense, was instructed to wear "a tuxedo or the equivalent" (unisex instructions based on decades of almost only men taking PhDs). She went with the tux, a tight-waisted one that fit her figure. Very stylish! See? Even grown-up women wear pants at dress-up occasions sometimes.

[newfsmith]

I say let her wear the suit. You already made the decision when you let her go into the boys' department and choose it. To not let her wear it would undermine her confidence in your support. If there is flack, which I highly doubt, then you can let her know that you believe in her and think she looks very cute in the outfit she picked out.

Now for a slight hijack of the thread.

A friend of mine, when preparing for her dissertation defense, was instructed to wear "a tuxedo or the equivalent" (unisex instructions based on decades of almost only men taking PhDs). She went with the tux, a tight-waisted one that fit her figure... .

Where did your friend defend her thesis? When my husband went to his thesis defense (U. of Wis-Madison) he did wear a tie, but no coat. In fact, none of the profs wore jackets. Was that just because it was the late 60's, or a funky department (zoology), or a Land Grant school?

[MartianDestiny]

Now for a slight hijack of the thread.

Where did your friend defend her thesis? When my husband went to his thesis defense (U. of Wis-Madison) he did wear a tie, but no coat. In fact, none of the profs wore jackets. Was that just because it was the late 60's, or a funky department (zoology), or a Land Grant school?

Our department (Geology, CU Boulder) definitely doesn't due tuxes either. Appropriate business attire yes, but not formal attire. Heck, some people give keynote addresses in jeans and a t-shirt at the conferences I go to, so a tux would be way way way overdressed.

[Duck on Wheels]

I say let her wear the suit. You already made the decision when you let her go into the boys' department and choose it. To not let her wear it would undermine her confidence in your support. If there is flack, which I highly doubt, then you can let her know that you believe in her and think she looks very cute in the outfit she picked out.

Now for a slight hijack of the thread.



Where did your friend defend her thesis? When my husband went to his thesis defense (U. of Wis-Madison) he did wear a tie, but no coat. In fact, none of the profs wore jackets. Was that just because it was the late 60's, or a funky department (zoology), or a Land Grant school?

Netherlands. Defending a dissertation is a BIG DEAL here in Europe, a multi-day rite of passage.

[kathybiker]

There are really two issues here.

One is the way your daughter will dress at the kindergarten graduation, and whether you might spare her from ridicule related to wearing a boy's suit and tie.

If you let her wear it, you'll likely be able to cope with any related problems. By itself, this is a minor issue.

The more important question is your daughter's relationship with you and identity as a girl. We don't know the specifics, and certainly they're part of your private life and not our business.

If I were in your position, I'd be wondering whether my girl is simply a tomboy or whether she actually wants to be a boy. In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with being a tomboy.

But if my daughter really wanted to be a boy, I'd question whether I was giving her an admirable and loving role model. I'd look at my closeness or lack of closeness to my daughter, and find ways I might give her more support.

I'd be wondering whether I might change her desire to be a boy, not out of discomfort with what anybody else thinks, but because I'd like her to accept her gender and have the most access to positive choices in her life.

It's easy to accept the idea, "I am a girl," because it is simple and true. It is harder to accept the statement, "I am a girl who wants to be a boy," or "I am a woman who wants to be a man," because both of these involve painful contradictions.

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[Biciclista]

I'd be wondering whether I might change her desire to be a boy, not out of discomfort with what anybody else thinks, but because I'd like her to accept her gender and have the most access to positive choices in her life.

It's easy to accept the idea, "I am a girl," because it is simple and true. It is harder to accept the statement, "I am a girl who wants to be a boy," or "I am a woman who wants to be a man," because both of these involve painful contradictions.

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Kathy biker, I wonder if you have had children. You can't CHANGE their desires.
Not to be boys or girls or wear the color green. You can change their behavior, to a degree, but their desires? please, don't make me laugh!
I raised two sons and one liked to dress like a dandy and the other didn't care. There was nothing I could do to change that, not all the cajoling in the world.
When I was a little girl, in the worst way I wanted high top boys's sneakers. I saw a picture in a book of a little girl wearing them. I didn't get a pair of my own until i was 30. And I probably DID want to be a boy somewhere back there when I was little and the boys were throwing rocks at me and the girls were playing dumb games. And no one CHANGED my desires, I grew out of them.
If the kid wants to wear a suit, she'll look cool and cute and dressy, and she might never want to again, or she will.
One of the best things about being a girl is that it is acceptable for girls to wear boy's clothes AND girl's clothes.

[kathybiker]

Kathy biker, I wonder if you have had children. You can't CHANGE their desires.
Not to be boys or girls or wear the color green. You can change their behavior, to a degree, but their desires? please, don't make me laugh!

Your sarcasm is not one of your admirable traits.

If my little girl seriously wanted to be a boy, yes, I as a parent would wonder whether I could change that desire. My focus would be on on getting me to be different.

I would ask myself whether her desire was growing out of a lack of support on my part. Perhaps if this was so, and I was more there for her, she would change her desire to be a gender which she is not.

As I said in my original post, I see nothing wrong with a girl being a tomboy.

[Presto]

Do you stand by your child and face the world together?

Or do push her behind your back (turn your back on her), and face the world for her?

You see that she is old enough to choose her own clothes for her own graduation, and that she is happy with her choice. Where do you stand?

[hipmama]

I go along with letting her wear it.
With my daughter, when I know she's headed for a situation where she may face some social backlash, we talk about it beforehand so that she's prepared with some answers. We do this because defending herself is something that my daughter likes to do, but not on the spot. So, if this were happening in my house, she'd pick out the outfit and after getting excited with her about the ceremony and the nice new outfit, I'd ask her if she ever gets comments from kids at school about how she doesn't wear the same kinds of clothes that a lot of the other girls seem to like. I'd go from there. If she said that she did get comments, I'd ask her how she responds, or if there's something she'd like to say but hasn't, and then help her find an easy way to say what she wants to say that doesn't use too many words or start an argument. She might be young enough now that it goes over a lot of heads, but maybe not. Either way, your non-judgmental support is probably going to be really important to her in both the respect you give her in her own choices and personality, and as a buffer to those who ridicule. Thanks for letting her choose!

[Iris616]

Thanks every one for the opinions. She is going to wear what she wants...the pants suit with a vest and tie. I will smile and be proud of her.

Funny, questioning her sexuality (or gender identity) didn't really enter into my mind. I don't think she sees it as a sexuality issue at all. If the time comes in her life that she is evaluating those things, we'll support her and love her for who she is.

I had a great conversation with the TA in the room, to get a feel for how things might go. She told me not to worry. My DD is actually quite well liked in her class and the school in general, and she thinks it has a lot to do with that she palys with both boys/girls equally. She said that through out the entire year of DD wearing only "boy clothes" none of the kids (or parents) have cared or commented, so she saw no reason to think it might be different at graduation.

I have mentioned to her occasionally, that if she ever chooses to try on something from the girls department, I would be okay with that. She says, "okay, but not today."

[Karma007]

I was lucky Sidney didn't wear the rain boots she had insited on wearing all spring, and the furry backpack she wore as her 'stole' (back when 101 Dalmations was so very popular).

And honestly, she wanted to genuinely BE a dog at one point. I would have felt lucky if she had wanted to be a boy! No worries, she is a fairly well adjusted 15 year old now, who loves boys and reptiles.

[Duck on Wheels]

... loves boys and reptiles.

Which are sometimes one and the same

[Duck on Wheels]

btw, I do agree with KathyBiker up to a point. If a child is so unhappy that they strongly wish to be someone else, then I would want to find the root of that unhappiness and help the child work through it if possible. But wishing to be the opposite gender, or a dog, or a horse, or a foundling child whose real parents are royalty ... that's all pretty normal in the single-digit years. It's the teens I worry about when they're unhappy with themselves. At that age, every problem seems insurmountable, so they need all the help they can get until they've gone through enough problems to have a more balanced perspective.

[teigyr]

Iris616, I totally think you're doing the right thing

I remember wanting to be a boy in THE worst way. It didn't mean I truly wanted to be a boy, I just wanted to do Little League and fun getting dirty boy stuff. I liked boys, popular girls made me nervous, and I didn't quite fit in with the cool kids. Even after elementary school, I lived for high tops and 501's. I just didn't have quite the style that the girly-girls had.

As others have done, I also went through the "wanting to be an animal" stage, I wore cowboy stuff, and then transitioned gracefully into the purple-haired punk stage in H.S. None of it was ever to do with my gender identity or my sexuality.

I'm married and still alternate between wearing my husband's clothes and girly clothes. I love makeup and salons but one of the cool things about being a grown-up is I can choose how I want to be for the day. When I was in elementary school, MY mother said I could only wear pants one day a week. I remember feeling really awkward the rest of the days....ugh.

I think it's great your daughter has the creativity that she has and that you are allowing her to express it. Sometimes clothing is just clothing.