Behind the Scenes @ Chrysler Dealers

[smilingcat]

Well I am not sure what the total compensation the hourly workers get. Yest there are hidden cost that employees do not see nor understand.

But I don't think this is the whole problem at the big three. I have other gripes about the big three. and we should not focus on the hourly workers total compensation. That is NOT ALL THE PROBLEM. Don't blame wholely on the hourly workers!

Poor management.
A. Failed to upgrade their production facility while the rest of the world continuously upgraded the factory. VW group, even Porche, the Koreans and the Japanese have made tremendous strides in factory operation.

B. Not keeping up with the trend and changes in style, taste and features. Why is it that the big three have to bring back old dead models as new?

C. Failing to adopt new technology that consumers demand.

D. lack of vision of where things are headed. We started the car industry we are the leaders!! That's what they want to think. WRONG!! Europeans and the Japanese are so far ahead in all areas, the big three need to go learn from them. Case in point CAFE standard. its a pretty much a laughing stock for US. By the time we get there in 2012 was it? the Europeans and the Japanese are already surpassing those numbers. And they will be past 40MPG. Europeans have a higher MPG than even the Japanese.

D. biggest failure is failure to meet customer expectation. Quality, reliability.

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Back when Honda introduced the Honda CVCC, I had a chance to ask one of the engineers at **** an interesting question. "What do you think of the stratified cumbustion system being developed and used by Honda? They claim they do not need a catalytic converter to meet the emission standard." The reply I got was "Well young lady, you are blah blah blah... Its lot more complicated problem than you could possibly understand. blah blah blah..." I thought he was full of it, so patronizing. I saw some released CVCC engine data performance. Oh it didn't help I'm Japanese. BTW, honda CVCC did not use a catalytic converter nor an air pump and still met the emission standards back in the '70s. The cost saving of not having the converter allowed them to sell the car at much lower price point than Chrysler, GM or Ford. Why do you think they were so popular. It also helped too that they went after a market segment ignored by the big three, WOMEN. And they cleaned up.

State of the art cars without doubt is the formula one grand prix cars. Not NASCARS not INDY cars. INDY cars are bigger than the Formula cars. The technology in the formula race cars are unbelievable. Lotus in UK, Ferrai from Italy, Jaguar, Merceds, BMW, Honda and even Toyota are all involved. Not GM nor Chrysler. Because they are not up to snuff.

Lotus have the best active suspension system. They sell their development system to GM to help GM develop better suspension systems.

Honda's engine development is by far the best of the group. The race engines are equipped with all sorts of sensors to gather performance data and transmitted via satellite to Honda headquarters at each and every race, real time as the race progress. Aerodynamics of the cars, computer sequenced gear shifting, computer sequenced engine control and gear shifting from standing start (both outlawed in formula racing), active anti lock control, active traction control are all far more advanced than anything GM or Chrysler can do or know how to do. The carbon-carbon braking system technology is beyond the means for GM and Chrysler. BMW, Ferrai, McLaren, ... all have years of experience with it. The pads and the rotors of these brake run just fine at 800-1000F. They are so hot they glow with bright orange color.

Oh Audi is also heavily involved too. The classification of their race cars keeps changing Proto 1 and 2... the cars you see in LeMans 24 hour race. yeahhhh those cars can hit over 240MPH. Jaguar XJ220 AVERAGED 208MPH speed at a race track in Belgium (failed to meet the 220MPH design goal) . And that was a "production" car you could buy for cool $1USD million. And yes you can drive that car legally on American street up to 3000 miles per year. DOT limit on super cars (other restictions apply).

And why can't GM and Chrysler do this. Is it the failure of the workers? no. Failure is complacency on the management and failure to recognize the technological advancement being made on the cars and FACTORY OPERATION. Even a simple concept as "just in time production". They simply did not keep up. The upper management should all be replaced!! And the corporate culture NEEDS A MAJOR OVERHAUL. NEVER UNDERESTIMATE YOUR COMPETITION OR BE SO D&^% DISMISSIVE!!

Sorry for being long winded. It just irks me to no end to simply blame the hourly workers. They do what they are told and do it well. Buf if the marching order is well...

[Mr. Bloom]

That is NOT ALL THE PROBLEM. Don't blame wholely on the hourly workers!

You're right and I was wrong to imply that in my forceful response.

[ilima]

It's been suggested that the US's domination of the auto market for many decades from the 1950s onward was largely the product of the manufacturing abilities of Japan and Germany being decimated by WWII.

My parents bought their first Japanese car (a Toyota Corolla) in 1980. It had front wheel drive, which was good for driving in the snow, and it got good gas mileage because it was small. These were two things you just couldn't get in a US-made automobile at the time.

You are right, smilingcat, that the problems with Detroit start at the top, not at the bottom with the workers. I don't think it's wrong for people to expect decent wages and benefits for an honest day's work. When I was growing up a blue-collar worker could buy a house in a good school district and provide a nice but not extravagant lifestyle for his family. That's the way it should be and we shouldn't be hatin' on Detroit autoworkers for expecting that.

[andtckrtoo]

I've long been a BUY AMERICAN enthusiast for cars. I've had GMC's, Jeeps, Dodge's, Chrysler... (I love cars). Our daughter went to college and wanted a Honda Accord (used, of course). The car had 56k miles on it, she's driven it for 2 years now (it has 75k on it - and those were not easy miles - she's 20) and it is still going strong. We never have to worry about her breaking down somewhere because it's a Honda.

A few years before DD got the Honda, we bought a new 2004 GMC Envoy. By the time we had 40k miles on it, we had to replace the gas gauge (and yes, we did run out of gas on a late Friday night because of the faulty gauge - not a fun night), a power window, a transmission, and the brakes - and 2 batteries.

We now have a used Lexus RX350 (DH's car - he likes SUV's - but this one gets better gas mileage than the Envoy ever did), and a used Honda Accord Hybrid (which is more of a sports car than a true Hybrid, but I still get better gas mileage and I have a ton of power!). I don't have to buy new because I know the car will still last no matter how it was driven. So I get more car for the same price and it lasts longer.

It will take me A LOT to go back to an American car.

Forget the worker's salaries. The reason the Big 3 are doing so poorly is because their cars are not quality. When I can have a car with 100k miles (a friend finally traded her Subaru when it had 250,000 HARD miles on it - she climbs 14,000 foot mountains and that car took her up a lot of those - she hated to do it because it still ran well, but she decided it was time) on it that is still going strong and is very reliable, why would I buy a car that will fall apart before it hits 40k miles?

[Mr. Bloom]

It will take me A LOT to go back to an American car.

Me too, with a couple exceptions:
- Ford's quality has been decent
- Buick may be boring (because of infrequent model changes), but as a result their quality has been outstanding (and I believe they're one of the biggest selling brands in China).

Here's a comparison, excluding tires, Last Year:
- I spent about $700 in maintenance on my '97 Lexus with 150,000 miles
- I spent a few hundred $ on Silver's '98 Toyota Siena with 140,000 miles
- I spent about $2,000 on SilverDaughter's '95 Jeep with 120,000 miles (that was previously owned and maintained by Silver's engineer uncle...)

I'm part of a generation that Detroit totally lost due to quality issues in the 70's and 80's.

[Eden]

Technically I guess I own a GM car. We have a Saturn, but from 1997, so way before they were officially rolled back into GM. I love my car. It's been reliable and low maintenance the entire time we've owned it. Would I buy another.... probably not.... they've stopped making them in Tennessee (moved the factory to Mexico in 07), stopped using plastic body panels and basically turned them into just another GM.... Most of the reasons we bought the car in the first place are gone.

If I had to buy another car tomorrow I'd probably look at Smart (though it is seriously disappointing that you cannot get the 80 mpg diesel version here) or Volkswagon. Until American manufacturers catch up and make safe, attractive small cars that get good gas mileage they will likely continue to suffer.

[Crankin]

I agree totally with Mr. S' last statement. The last American car I had was in 1980. Since then I've had a Mazda, Subaru, Toyota, Volvo, and BMW. I had the Volvo for 9 years, with only one major repair thingy, that was covered by a warranty. The reason I got rid of it was well, some 90 year old guy crashed into my DH while he was driving it, but also, it was before you could get AWD in their models. I would have kept that car forever, but once we moved here, I needed the AWD. I would say the best car I had, mechanically was the Toyota Fourunner. However, I was sick of SUVs/mini vans/wagons, so after 6 years I traded it for the BMW sedan. When I got that car six years ago, I had very little choice of smaller sedans with AWD. I wanted to go back to a Japanese car, but my only choice was a Subaru, which I didn't like at all. My car gets OK mileage, nothing great, but I love it. I will probably keep it for 2-3 more years, and then who knows. I hope Toyota comes out with a small sedan with AWD, so I can get what I want and get up my driveway in the winter.
I don't feel bad for GM at all. Yes, I feel badly for people losing their jobs, but everyone should have seen the writing on the wall. Our world has changed and today, there are very few jobs you can get, that pay the money/benefits they were making, without higher education of some kind. The guy who said he "thought his kids would be working there," is an example of what I mean. What kid, today, can graduate from high school and think they are going to get that kind of job? Of course, in the end, it's the leaders' fault that they were not visionary enough to start designing low mileage, small cars when they needed to. When I think of GM, I think of my grandfather, who bough a new Buick or Chevy every 2 years. Ugh!

[GLC1968]

I was driving to work this morning and snickering to myself. I took our 'farm truck' because DH needed the car.

It's a 1987 Dodge Dakota and it's got 194K miles on it. Runs like a champ. We bought it last summer for $1K, put maybe $100 in random parts into it, and we've used this truck for some serious heavy duty work (well heavier than a small pickup like this should do) and it's doing extremely well.

GM sucks at making cars (for the most part) but they sure know how to build a truck.

It makes me think that if the American public hadn't gotten so greedy and into the 'bigger is better' mindset, then GM wouldn't be half as bad off. I never understood why people who lived in the American south needed big huge 4X4 SUV's (unless for work/farm). Why do soccer mom's need SUV's when station wagons worked as well? This auto industry mess isn't solely the responsiblity of the automakers - the public sent them down this stupid road and then, when gas got expensive, demanded something that they couldn't deliver. If people had thought about conservation long before it hurt their bank accounts, things might have been different.