Avail 3 vs Scattante R-330

[Cataboo]

Not to start anything here - but, you guys are sort of giving performance a bad rap, and painting a rosy picture of local bike shops. Not that there aren't very rosy local bike shops out there, but they're not all like that. And I'm sure somewhere there's a rosy performance bike shop out there. There's plenty of stories of people who've bought bikes at local bike shops that didn't fit or had something wrong, and the bike shop wasn't willing to work with them or fix it. Look at how many threads on here about being ignored or whatever at local bike shops because you're female or overweight.

I bought my first real bike at a local bike shop, and it didn't fit. I was steered towards the bike, and yeah, maybe I should have known better - but I didn't at the time, and I was assured that this was the bike that fit me. Maintenance - they threw in one tune up after a month for cable stretch and after that you could buy their maintenance contract.... One of the guys here at work recently bought a pretty expensive mountain bike (full suspension, higher end components ) from a local bike shop, and they refused to give any fit advice or suggestions if he didn't pay the extra $200 or whatever for a pro bike fit... He could test ride the bikes and decide on his own. The bike he bought has ended up being too big for him. Read craigslist and see how many bikes that are being sold that start off with "I bought this bike at my local bike shop, but it doesn't fit & they won't allow me to exchange"

Performance does offer lifetime free adjustments on their bikes and does give a 100% satisfaction guarantee so that you can return your bike to them and get your money back at any time.

So if you have a great local bike shop and are completely certain of the fit of the avail, local bike shop prices are probably worth it... Scattantes aren't bad frames or bikes either especially when you're talking about the sora componentry level.

[Running Mommy]

Not to start anything here - but, you guys are sort of giving performance a bad rap, and painting a rosy picture of local bike shops. Not that there aren't very rosy local bike shops out there, but they're not all like that. And I'm sure somewhere there's a rosy performance bike shop out there. There's plenty of stories of people who've bought bikes at local bike shops that didn't fit or had something wrong, and the bike shop wasn't willing to work with them or fix it. Look at how many threads on here about being ignored or whatever at local bike shops because you're female or overweight.

I bought my first real bike at a local bike shop, and it didn't fit. I was steered towards the bike, and yeah, maybe I should have known better - but I didn't at the time, and I was assured that this was the bike that fit me. Maintenance - they threw in one tune up after a month for cable stretch and after that you could buy their maintenance contract.... One of the guys here at work recently bought a pretty expensive mountain bike (full suspension, higher end components ) from a local bike shop, and they refused to give any fit advice or suggestions if he didn't pay the extra $200 or whatever for a pro bike fit... He could test ride the bikes and decide on his own. The bike he bought has ended up being too big for him. Read craigslist and see how many bikes that are being sold that start off with "I bought this bike at my local bike shop, but it doesn't fit & they won't allow me to exchange"

Performance does offer lifetime free adjustments on their bikes and does give a 100% satisfaction guarantee so that you can return your bike to them and get your money back at any time.

So if you have a great local bike shop and are completely certain of the fit of the avail, local bike shop prices are probably worth it... Scattantes aren't bad frames or bikes either especially when you're talking about the sora componentry level.

Thats why you do your research!!!
I am a female lbs owner who happens to be on the chubby side. So guess how we treat EVERYONE who walks in the door?? Like cyclists- or potential cyclists worthy of our time and respect.
I do agree that it's not always the case out here. But being a small business owner myself I always try to give the little guy my biz first. Be it hardware, or a sandwhich. It is VERY HARD for the little guy to survive and fight the price cutting the big guys are able to do. So anytime you can throw a bone to a small shop- and they EARN THE BONE- please do it.
I have a story about a guy named "Jimmy" that maybe I'll post sometime.

[TxDoc]

Other than aesthetic reasons, I have misgivings about the R-330, and I don't know why, because I should be getting "more bike for the money."
Could someone qualitatively explain what the differences between (at least, Giant's versions) women's frame and the "men's", and what can't be solved by tweaking things and swapping out parts?
I'm pretty sure this has been asked before, but how does one go about (roughly) determining frame size?
Are there other things I'm not considering?

Hi Owlie
from your post - forgive me if I am mistaken - I get the impression that you have tried a few bikes, and like the Avail among those. Which is great, hey, but... from the question you ask it looks like you really do not have a clear idea of what you are looking for, or what fits your size and riding style. So my #1 recommendation would be to go out and test-ride as many bikes as you can - before you make a decision.

No pun intended on the Performance stores - but from my experience, big franchise-style stores tend to emphasize low price over quality of the merchandise and customer service. Let me give you a few examples (and again - these comments are based more on other chains than Performace itself, but still):
To reduce the final price, some manufacturer and franchises choose to limit the quality of less evident components. For example, the brakes (lower-cost/older brake models on an otherwise dura ace or ultegra bike), or brake pads (which could be the disposable style where you have to throw out the shoe with the pad), or rims (many makers use low quality rims on entry-level bikes, cheap spokes, cheap nipples...), and on and on we go. And of course, provided that you notice this before the purchase (and most new riders do not), the answer is often that a stock bike is a stock bike and you buy it the way it is. Then, if you want better componentry, you will buy it on top of it. So yes, you save some money in the beginning - but at some point you will have to make up for it.
The small shop does not have the price advantage - and so they have to rely on the quality advantage if they want to stay in business. And therefore at the small shop you can do things that are not possible in the big franchise. For example, if you want to make some changes, the local shop may be willing to swap components, even on a stock bicycle.
The fitting is also what I see as a major problem. Large franchise shops often think of a fitting process as: saddle height, frame size, thank you and goodbye, enjoy your ride. Sometimes they will throw in a handlebar width and stem length measurement. In the last three months I have observed several people having a fit done in two major franchise sport/bike store - and each one of them took an average of 6-7 minutes. Now, I know some people are fast but my mechanic takes about 30-45 minutes for each fit - and more if there's an issue to be worked out (injuries, racing, power output, etc). Running Mommy, how long does your average fit take?
Yes Catriona you are right, not everywhere is all roses but often the smaller shop - provided that they have knowledgeable employees and mechanics - will take the necessary time to give you a more appropriate fitting. And this again is because, as it has been said, they need to earn their customers, and they want you to come back.
In the end the main difference is that often a big franchise store wants you to buy a bike and then go elsewhere for maintenance - while the small business wants you to buy a bike and come back. One has the purpose of earning a sale, the other wants to earn a customer.

So all things considered, my bottom line recommendation to you would be -
1. keep visiting bike shops until you find the right one, and if at the end Performance is the right one, then so be it - but do not settle just for the price.
2. keep riding bikes until you find the right one. And I do not speak of the color, or women-specific, etc - what really matters is how it fits your body and your riding style. And so, if you fit on a stock bike available around the corner that's great, but if you don't then you have to keep looking.
3. if you have friends that know something more about bikes, do not hesitate to bring them along. Sometimes a more experienced cyclist can notice details or ask questions that you would not think of looking at - and everything helps.

Well, sorry for the extra-long post, and good luck on your search!

[Owlie]

Thank you all for your responses.

After running around this weekend, I think I'm going to go with the Avail. I did go to Performance, and they a) didn't have any in stock, and b) didn't have anything in my price range in stock. I can get the Avail for less over at the LBS than the cheapest entry-level road bike they had at Performance. The other thing is, the gear range on the Avail is wider. The Performance bikes seemed to be geared for climbing. Great, but not what I need right now.


(I did pick up a helmet at Performance, and they were willing to give me the online price (67) rather than the store price (87), so good for them!)