Ack, I shouldn't have kept reading this thread. I just ordered the loose fit knickers w/out the chamois. They seem perfect for the times I am meeting someone for lunch or an appt. and I don't want to wear a skort. I have 2 pair of the board shorts, in the shorts length and I love them and now I have 2 extra liners that came with them. I also liked the looks of capri length board shorts, but I do not *need* them.