Park police disturbs me

[denny]

Sorry I haven't had a chance to check the messages since I originally posted . Loong work week so far and exhausted. Anyway, I managed to squeeze in an hour of training at Stone Mtn Park yesterday and observed the peleton as they came through. They ride 2 abreast and always before dark. My friends who ride with them state they ride single file if they are doing 22-25mph but they do not exceed the posted speeding limit of 30mph.

I would post pics of the park to provide a better pic of the layout conditions etc but I'm not on my home pc right now. I'm not one of the riders in the group but I work in the healthcare field and have seen more than enough cyclists versus motor vehichle accidents to be concerned that the maneuver may be a bit extreme with a high potential for an ugly outcome. Another police officer who runs at the park has stated that the officers at the park are "known to be really grumpy" and they are known to single out cyclists for minor stuff even though there are people running in the street versus designated pedestrian side walk and lanes.

While the PD have always been polite and pleasant to me, I can relay one conversation with an officer who was trying to "help" the cyclists out. A female cyclist had been hit by a car over the weekend while observing all the rules, etc. I asked about the incident because we had mutual friends. The officer told me to "tell my cyclist friends to be careful because there are cars in the park." The implication being that she was somehow careless. I agree with him that we have the burden to make sure we stay safe. However, I might add that the cyclist was hit because a car made a u-turn right in front of her. I have had a similar event occur within the last month as well. I have always been told that they would prefer that cyclists not use the park, etc. I can honestly say most non-park regulars are clueless about sharing space with cyclists.

I am not against law enforcement by any means as I always seem to end up dating them somehow. Something about guns and a uniform??? . naaah!!
Yes, it may mean re-routing the group ride but I still have to wonder at their methods.

[denny]

that's pretty typical when some posts hoping for sympathy but then the majority doesn't agree with them. (been there done that, hid out for a while afterwards....)

LOL! See my post! Why assume hiding out? Long days without time to check mail, etc.

[ZenSojourner]

I called this afternoon and spoke with the assistant Police chief at Stone Mountain.

They have a different version of the incident in question.

Apparently there have been ongoing problems just in the last 5 years or so with large, fast moving pelotons in the park. They estimate there were 70 riders in the peloton involved in last week's incident. The officer with whom I spoke is a 34 year veteran of the park police force and apparently they had only isolated incidents of problems involving cyclists until just the last 5 years or so, when apparently some local racing clubs decided the multi-use paths (not bike paths) in the park would make excellent training routes.

The officer in question was not trying to flag the peloton down, he got caught in the crosswalk and if he was waving his arms around it was probably to wave them off because he was afraid of getting hit. He saw the group at the top of the hill as he started to cross the street but had no idea they were traveling as fast as they were and they caught him crossing the road IN THE CROSSWALK. Regardless of maximum speed limits posted, any pedestrian in a crosswalk means STOP. If you are going too fast to stop for a pedestrian in the crosswalk, you are going too fast.

The peloton was taking up the entire width of both lanes in that direction. According to both Georgia state law and park regulations, cyclists are to ride in one lane only and not more than 2 abreast, with the additional rule that they ride single file on weekends because of the increased traffic from all park users (pedestrians, cyclists, and motor vehicles). The officer involved reported that the peloton leaders shouted "PEDESTRIAN" as they whizzed past, but did not stop or slow down, with the result being that those following them did not stop or slow down, but rather split around the man in the crosswalk. Georgia law states that all vehicles - whether a car or a bicycle - are to STOP when there is a pedestrian in the crosswalk.

Four cyclists ran into each other. Two were driven by friends to the hospital, one for a shoulder injury and one for some stitches in his finger. No ambulances were involved. While there have been incidents where the police have stopped riders and issued tickets and warnings, the assistant chief was not aware of any recent incidents where an entire peloton had been flagged down and stopped. He was not aware of any officer having pulled a cruiser into the middle of the road to create a road block either. The policy is that the same methods are used to stop cyclists as are used to stop motor vehicles, when that is necessary.

Police reports are a matter of public record. If anyone is that interested in the situation out there, just get copies of the police reports for the past couple of months, but there has not been a concerted effort to chase down these pelotons, only a case-by-case handling of individual situations.

Even the people posting about this incident have as much as admitted that they were taking up both lanes, that they were traveling at a high rate of speed, and that this is not unusual for that particular group of cyclists.

This incident occurred at a crosswalk. Crosswalks mean slow down and prepare to stop. Pedestrians have the right of way at crosswalks, even if they're wearing a uniform. This park is not set up to be a racing training route for large groups of fast moving packs of cyclists. The bicycle path is not actually a bicycle path, it's a multi-use path split between pedestrians, RECREATIONAL cyclists (not racers), and motor vehicles. There is nowhere on the road where these cyclists are riding where there is NOT pedestrian access, crosswalks, and at one point there is access to a playground.

According to the assistant chief, the vast majority of cyclists utilizing the grounds obey the rules, other than the occasional probably inadvertent infraction. It's just these large groups of racers who are consistently causing problems.

[Cataboo]

ZS, you should be a reporter... Have you interviewed the cyclists involved yet?

And I thought that investigative journalism was dead in the US.

[ZenSojourner]

The single file comment refers to the bike lane. Law in Georgia states that bikes can ride two abreast.

As far as taking the lane, the law also says to ride as far to the right as is practical and safe. It is my judgement that it is more practical and safe when I'm traveling at 25mph to take the lane when cars have a whole other lane for themselves. I'm sorry you feel that it's wrong for me to do what I feel is the safest option in this situation, but the law, in this case, agrees that I can do what is the safest option for me and the cars sharing the road with me.

I don't feel any such thing about your riding.

I'm responding to a fast-moving peloton of 70 that ignores traffic regulations, takes up two full lanes, and does not stop for a pedestrian in the cross-walk.

[Cataboo]

ha. Apparently the police aren't the only people in Atlanta aggravated by roadies. I just told a friend that lives in Atlanta about this thread and his immediate responses were:

- was this in a race or were the roadies being the general a**holes that they always are and blocking the f**king road?
- they do that **** around here all the time...atlanta is really bad about it
- 5 PM...20 bikes in the middle of extremely busy roads
- the funny thing is how many places there are in atlanta for roadies to ride and they ride on traffic jam streets
- oh, that is probably the main road for the park, not exactly wide streets, so a pack of roadies would completely block the road
- 2 abreast, yeah right, if there are three roadies on a street in atlanta, there are three people side by side. If there's 4, there's 4 side by side
- the entitlement is ridiculous...not like anywhere else I have lived
- they will go into neighborhoods and ride in loops in packs for hours.
NOT in neighborhoods where they live and then they wonder why the residents get pissed

He's not a roadie, but a mountain biker

[ZenSojourner]

ha. Apparently the police aren't the only people in Atlanta aggravated by roadies.

but . . . but . . . but *I* am a roadie! *WEEP*

See I separate people like this off into a different group which I call the "racerati".

This is a group of cyclists that have their own culture and rules and secret handshakes and all that.

These guys are not just racers. Just because you race you are not a member of the racerati. Not even if you actually WIN your races. In fact, ESPECIALLY not if you actually WIN your races. Being a member of the racerati does not mean you are actually a competitive racer at all, though you probably THINK you are, and like to PRETEND you are.

No, no, no, there is much more to being a member of the racerati than merely owning (or at least aspiring to own) a $10,000 carbon frame bike and the sleekest of anti-friction lycra jersey's and shorts.

If you aspire to become a member of the racerati there are a few things you need to get down pat.

Firstly, there is the Racerati Sneer. This sneer should be pasted across your face at all times, but particularly when any non-racerati cross your path. In particular, you must be prepared to sneer full blast at any of the following:

• Anyone with a triple
• Anyone on a mountain bike, hybrid, recumbent, Bike Friday, or MOST ESPECIALLY a mixte, step-through frame, Schwinn, Huffy, or other Big Box Store Brand Bicycle
• Anyone more than 5 pounds UNDERweight
• Anyone with duct tape anywhere on their helmet or bike
• Anyone with a kickstand
• Anyone who stops at red lights, stop signs, or crosswalks
• Anyone who uses the brakes when going downhill
• Anyone wearing a hydration pack

Secondly, you must be a First Class Bike Snob. Here's how:

Bike Snobbery 101

Thirdly, you must make sure you are properly outfitted (also, more about proper Bike Snobbery):

So You Want to be a Cyclist: Part 1: Choosing Your Equipment

So You Want to be a Cyclist: Part 2: Lifestyle Changes

Then, you must learn to love The Peloton. You must ride the roadways like a swarm of angry hornets. You must clump together as if tigers are stalking you and pulling down the weaker members of the herd at the edges and rear of The Peloton. Similarly you must jockey for position at the front of The Peloton in order to avoid contamination by said weaker members of the herd. You must think with a Single Mind, Swerve as The Peloton Swerves, Climb as The Peloton Climbs, single organelles yet all part of a vast, Amoebic body.

And finally, and most important - you must show a fine contempt and complete and total disregard for everyone else on the road, for all traffic regulations except as applied to other people, and you must believe totally and unwaveringly in the Complete Infallibility of Your Right To Take The Entire Road, Not Just The Lane.

And remember, All Pedestrians Belong in Cars, and ALL Cars Belong At The Bottom of the Ocean.

[Cataboo]

*cough*

Apparently he's not the only one with unresolved anger at racerati.

He was fine with 1 or 2 roadies, he just went on a rant about the packs.

I will make sure to get my terminology straight in the future, as I toodle along on my triple.

[PamNY]

ZenSojourner, what grade did you say you are in at school this year?

Pam

[kacie tri-ing]

Hmmmm....I am a native georgian who loves atlanta, but it is not the easiest city to ride in

I am not defending anyone, but the city does not do a whole lot to make it easier on us (granted, I am a bike commuter and triathlete who rarely rides in packs because I practice without a draft most of the time...). I know that I am not the people he was complaining about, but it always tough to hear people upset with your city when they are usually a part of the traffic problem (not always, of course! There are a *few* who walk, bike, or take public transit sometimes, but it is not easy here!).

I think there are some relationship issues between motorists, cyclists, and the city (remember we have crazy sprawl and insane traffic. We are always at the top of the "bad city pollution" lists).

There is a reason we drive from the city out to the silver comet trail and stone mountain to actually be able to ride....I live in the middle of atlanta, but I save my city riding for weekend mornings

And I do NOT want to end up in any tense conflict, I just can't help but explain my city at least a little bit!

[ZenSojourner]

ZenSojourner, what grade did you say you are in at school this year?

Pam

I am beyond mere "grades". I am working on my doctorate.

*SNIFF*

/me assumes snootiest possible expression



PS - My son is also currently working on his doctorate. We're racing to see who finishes first. I'm pretty sure he's going to win.

[ZenSojourner]

I just can't help but explain my city at least a little bit!

Truthfully I have read that Atlanta is The Worst City to Ride Bike In.

Although, having been forced on occasion to drive in Boston traffic, I don't see how that can POSSIBLY be. Boston's scary enough in a car, I'm pretty sure I don't have the cajones to try it on a bike.

[ZenSojourner]

BTW, we as cyclists are invited by the Stone Mountain Police Department to come and ride there.

The assistant chief did suggest, however, that we might want to avoid coming on a Tuesday or Thursday afternoon/evening as this is when the largest of the fast pelotons likes to zoom through the park.

[Cataboo]

He works from home, so he's not part of the traffic problem.

I've got the luxury of having nice rolling countryside a few miles from my house, so I avoid riding near cars as much as possible. It's just unpleasant.

it always tough to hear people upset with your city when they are usually a part of the traffic problem (not always, of course! There are a *few* who walk, bike, or take public transit sometimes, but it is not easy here!).

I think there are some relationship issues between motorists, cyclists, and the city (remember we have crazy sprawl and insane traffic. We are always at the top of the "bad city pollution" lists).

[Pedal Wench]

BTW, we as cyclists are invited by the Stone Mountain Police Department to come and ride there.

The assistant chief did suggest, however, that we might want to avoid coming on a Tuesday or Thursday afternoon/evening as this is when the largest of the fast pelotons likes to zoom through the park.

Please come in the winter for our WEDNESDAY night ride at Stone Mountain Park. Men are welcome but they can't ride up front setting the pace. We ride two abreast and are light up like Christmas trees - which is especially festive when we ride through the light displays around the holidays singing carols.

The city is bad for riding, which is why we descend on those few neighborhoods that are safer for riding. In general, we have no real problems.

If anyone wants to meet for an intown ride, I have quite a few that weave through the nice residential areas and avoid the roads that are scary.