Park police disturbs me

[Geonz]

New here or not, I disagree with this attitude that it's ok to break the rules because someone thinks they don't make sense, or that the simple act of stepping into the road constitutes unnecessary force.

A peloton that has been stopped once, and then does the same thing and ends up getting stopped again, THIS time with injuries, certainly is among the contingent I described - cyclists who ignore the rules because they think the rules shouldn't apply to them.

If you don't think that description applies to you, that's fine - I wasn't trying to apply it to you. What I was describing is a mindset among cyclists that we all know exists, and which I personally attribute to the members of this peloton.

I rather disagree with the attitude of bending phrases and words as you do. No, we weren't at the scene so we don't know exactly what the officer did, but Shifting stepping *into the path of a peleton* into "the simple act of stepping into the road" makes me realize that what you write is not going to bring me closer to learning something from or about the situation.

[Cataboo]

Alright... we're getting sidetracked and grumpy here. And we're all speculating on a park and a situation that most of us haven't seen or know very little about.

It seems that the solution to all of this would be to have a couple bikers meet with the head of the stone mountain police force or to have a meeting of a lot of the bikers that bike in the park and invite the police force to come explain to the bikers what exactly they want them to do...

I'm sure the police aren't happy that bikers were injured with their tactic and I'm sure the police officer that stepped into the road had to have feared for his life during it. This does end up being a liability issue for the park - if some of the bikers in the back decided to sue, it would at the very least tie up resources and probably bring bad publicity to the park.

So it should be possible to have that sort of meeting without recriminations or assigning blame and just to make sure that something like this doesn't happen again and ensure that the cyclists are clear on the rules for biking in the park as the police interpret them, and the police are clear on how they should stop a peleton. And do this before things escalate anymore.

I don't see anything in the faq that claims that the riding single file only applies to the bike lane. As far the as the police are concerned, maybe it doesn't. I don't know if that rule would trumph Georgia law or not on riding as far right as prudent or riding two abreast... But obviously, they can set rules in parks... It's all very well for people to say "I feel that it's safer or it's my judgement" and the reality in situations like this.... That doesn't matter, it's what the judgement of the police and the park authorities is on the matter, especially when they don't have to allow you to have access to the park and especially if they're going to continue tactics like those to get people to stop. You may be able to challenge all of that stuff with a law suit, but I think all of that would come down to how bike friendly a judge was.

[kenyonchris]

OK, ok. I'm a cop, so I'm qualified to comment...and true, we don't know EXACTLY what happened, where and how the cop decided to stop the cyclists FOR SURE. And I am commenting on what I know to be true, but I am telling you that there are cops out there who do things that I shake my head at and say "WHY? WHY?"
But, as any cop that has made more than one traffic stop or has directed traffic for more than, oh, a minute, will tell you, executing traffic stops is THE most dangerous thing we do. As such, we are VERY aware of the safety of the operator we are trying to stop, and the safety of ourselves. I'm not saying there aren't cops who do it unsafely (for either party) but because we work traffic regularly, and are bound by policy and regulations on HOW to do it, we generally try to keep safety at the forefront when executing a stop. Sometimes a quick stop can't be helped, and I have closed my eyes and hoped that traffic wasn't going to hit me as I tried to keep fast moving vehicles from plowing into an accident scene just over a hill or around a curve.
I will also tell you that cyclists, especially a group, are hard to stop. No rearview mirror, and they are sometimes unaware that they CAN be stopped, so unlike cars, aren't hyper-aware of the presence of a cop.
I ride the same streets that I patrol, and I am frustrated by the inconsiderate behavior of motorists. I am also a motorist who is frustrated by cyclists who are inconsiderate or do not think that the traffic laws apply to them.
If you are on a bike, regardless of riding singly or in a group, you are obligated to obey traffic laws. You CAN and SHOULD take the lane when appropriate so as to make motorists aware of where you are and what you are getting ready to do, but I also know that groups, sometimes frustrated by motorists, occupy the lane to force traffic to wait or not pass legally (short passing lanes or whatever). Whether riding in a group or alone, you may come across an accident around the turn, or you may be asked to stop by a cop, sometimes suddenly (accident or emergency ahead). That is part of the deal in using the road, the park trail, or sidewalks in a city.
Off soapbox.

[Grog]

Note that the original poster has not returned to the thread to comment since the first few messages.

[Irulan]

Note that the original poster has not returned to the thread to comment since the first few messages.

that's pretty typical when some posts hoping for sympathy but then the majority doesn't agree with them. (been there done that, hid out for a while afterwards....)

[denny]

Sorry I haven't had a chance to check the messages since I originally posted . Loong work week so far and exhausted. Anyway, I managed to squeeze in an hour of training at Stone Mtn Park yesterday and observed the peleton as they came through. They ride 2 abreast and always before dark. My friends who ride with them state they ride single file if they are doing 22-25mph but they do not exceed the posted speeding limit of 30mph.

I would post pics of the park to provide a better pic of the layout conditions etc but I'm not on my home pc right now. I'm not one of the riders in the group but I work in the healthcare field and have seen more than enough cyclists versus motor vehichle accidents to be concerned that the maneuver may be a bit extreme with a high potential for an ugly outcome. Another police officer who runs at the park has stated that the officers at the park are "known to be really grumpy" and they are known to single out cyclists for minor stuff even though there are people running in the street versus designated pedestrian side walk and lanes.

While the PD have always been polite and pleasant to me, I can relay one conversation with an officer who was trying to "help" the cyclists out. A female cyclist had been hit by a car over the weekend while observing all the rules, etc. I asked about the incident because we had mutual friends. The officer told me to "tell my cyclist friends to be careful because there are cars in the park." The implication being that she was somehow careless. I agree with him that we have the burden to make sure we stay safe. However, I might add that the cyclist was hit because a car made a u-turn right in front of her. I have had a similar event occur within the last month as well. I have always been told that they would prefer that cyclists not use the park, etc. I can honestly say most non-park regulars are clueless about sharing space with cyclists.

I am not against law enforcement by any means as I always seem to end up dating them somehow. Something about guns and a uniform??? . naaah!!
Yes, it may mean re-routing the group ride but I still have to wonder at their methods.

[denny]

that's pretty typical when some posts hoping for sympathy but then the majority doesn't agree with them. (been there done that, hid out for a while afterwards....)

LOL! See my post! Why assume hiding out? Long days without time to check mail, etc.

[salsabike]

OK, ok. I'm a cop, so I'm qualified to comment...and true, we don't know EXACTLY what happened, where and how the cop decided to stop the cyclists FOR SURE. And I am commenting on what I know to be true, but I am telling you that there are cops out there who do things that I shake my head at and say "WHY? WHY?"
But, as any cop that has made more than one traffic stop or has directed traffic for more than, oh, a minute, will tell you, executing traffic stops is THE most dangerous thing we do. As such, we are VERY aware of the safety of the operator we are trying to stop, and the safety of ourselves. I'm not saying there aren't cops who do it unsafely (for either party) but because we work traffic regularly, and are bound by policy and regulations on HOW to do it, we generally try to keep safety at the forefront when executing a stop. Sometimes a quick stop can't be helped, and I have closed my eyes and hoped that traffic wasn't going to hit me as I tried to keep fast moving vehicles from plowing into an accident scene just over a hill or around a curve.
I will also tell you that cyclists, especially a group, are hard to stop. No rearview mirror, and they are sometimes unaware that they CAN be stopped, so unlike cars, aren't hyper-aware of the presence of a cop.
I ride the same streets that I patrol, and I am frustrated by the inconsiderate behavior of motorists. I am also a motorist who is frustrated by cyclists who are inconsiderate or do not think that the traffic laws apply to them.
If you are on a bike, regardless of riding singly or in a group, you are obligated to obey traffic laws. You CAN and SHOULD take the lane when appropriate so as to make motorists aware of where you are and what you are getting ready to do, but I also know that groups, sometimes frustrated by motorists, occupy the lane to force traffic to wait or not pass legally (short passing lanes or whatever). Whether riding in a group or alone, you may come across an accident around the turn, or you may be asked to stop by a cop, sometimes suddenly (accident or emergency ahead). That is part of the deal in using the road, the park trail, or sidewalks in a city.
Off soapbox.

Thank you, Chris. I appreciate getting a post from a bicycle cop. Very valuable perspective.