New to cycling - Questions

[seychelle]

Hi all,

I finally bought a bike (not the bike I expected to get) yesterday and rode 9 miles. Keep in mind that it was not strenuous, but I did work to pedal and there were 2 small overpasses I climbed.

Today all that hurts is my rear end from the seat (I don't have padded shorts yet). My legs are like nothing ever happened. Is that normal or did I just not work hard enough or correctly? If I would've run 5K after not doing it for a while I would've felt the leg/thigh soreness the following day.

What does hurt is where the neck and shoulders meet and I am wondering if this is due to the bike not being at the correct angle for me or just me having to get used to a different position. I already have issues with that area and don't want to exacerbate it by improper fit. I did buy the bike at a LBS. I am giving it a a week or 2 to see if it goes away or improves before going back to them to make sure the bike is properly fitted. Any thoughts on this?

I am 5'2" and have a Cannondale Quick 4 Feminine, small.

Thanks!

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

You sound like you do some running or other active things? Are you also young (under 40)?

If so, it's not so unusual to not be too sore after a first 10 mile ride.
The sore muscles at the back of shoulders and neck seem normal to me- I always get them in the Spring after a winter of riding little- goes away after a couple weeks more of riding. This on my two bikes which actually have me sitting pretty upright (saddle at the same height as the handlebars).
Unless you are having real pain, I feel it's a bit premature to start making adjustments and changes to your bike after only 9 miles based on a bit of soreness here or there on someone who is not used to biking yet.


Do expect that anytime you use any of your muscles in a slightly different way or new body positions, you may well be sore afterwards, and this is normal. If you are new to biking, give it a dozen more 10 mile rides and then observe whether you are in any actual pain either during or after riding.
Give your body time to adapt to the new positions and new movements. Too many new bike riders start tweaking their bikes immediately after their first one or two rides, for every little achey muscle, and then later they wind up having to tweak all over again undoing what they did...only by that time they can't remember half the gazillion changes they made to their bike.

Sounds like you are thoroughly enjoying your new bike- GREAT!!!


P.S. I'd love to know the story behind you being a member of TE for almost 2 1/2 years and now finally getting your bike!

[ZenSojourner]

I'm 5'2" and the only off the rack bike I could get to fit was a Terry.

On the other hand I'm REALLY short waisted for my height, so we're probably not really comparable for anything except height.

Looking at the bike, I see it's a hybrid with an upright posture. Normally with that type of bike you wouldn't expect to see the kind of neck and shoulder pain you're talking about. That's more typical of a road bike with drop handlebars. Sometimes that sort of initial discomfort on a road bike will abate as you get used to riding with drop handlebars but that's clearly not what's going on here.

So. We have a hybrid and an upright posture. I see that the top tube length on that is 53.5 cm, that's 4.5 cm longer than my Terry Madeleine. On a hybrid, the kind of neck and shoulder pain you're talking about could be caused by having to reach too far forward. It could also be caused by the handlebars being too high or too low. On a hybrid it's ok for the handle bars to be anywhere from level with to a couple of inches above the seat, so you might check that. I had a lot of wrist and shoulder pain on a hybrid years ago because the frame was so badly skewed that the lowest level for the handlebars was about 4" ABOVE the seat even at full seat post extension (it was REALLY bad).

If the handlebars are ok for height, then it might be that forward reach is too long, which you can compensate for somewhat by using a shorter stem (bringing the handlebars back closer to the rider), but that requires a stem change and possibly an outlay of money if the bike shop won't swap it out for free, so check all other aspects of fit and adjustment first.

Check to make sure that your seat isn't tilted forward (or to the rear). It should be level. It'll take a level to be sure, too. You should be able to pick up a small level for under $5 if you don't already have one or you can't borrow one. A level will also help you figure out where the handlebars are with respect to the seat.

The seat tube angle on this bike is quite steep, I see that it's 75 degrees. It seems that many women are more comfortable with a lower angle, around 73 degrees or even a little less. I know of one woman on this forum who told me recently that when Terry changed the seat tube angle from 73 degrees to 74 in the model she was looking at, she couldn't ride the bike anymore, she just couldn't get comfortable on it. I don't know if there's a way to counteract that if that's a problem and I'm not actually sure if that's a likely culprit for neck/shoulder pain. I'll try to go look that posting up and ask the person specifically, or maybe she'll read this and chime in. This isn't something you can really change or compensate for.

Seat forward/aft position should also be checked. I can't remember off the top of my head exactly how to check that, it involves putting your foot on the pedal at a certain angle and then measuring from the front of the knee with a plumb-bob. Heck with it, here are a couple of pages with illustrations and instructions for checking all of these adjustments. Some of them require the help of a friend. I don't think the info about handlebar height is really applicable to a hybrid, but the third link is to a series of videos about fitting (specifically) a hybrid bike.

http://www.jimlangley.net/crank/bikefit.html
http://mikesbikes.com/page.cfm?PageID=22&tipid=30
http://www.ehow.com/video_2363020_hy...eight-fit.html

OK. so if you've checked seat level, seat height, saddle fore-aft position, and handlebar height, those are all the things I can think of on a bike that you can adjust without actually switching any parts out.

Sorry if this is kind of meander-y, I'm more or less thinking out loud.

OK so you mentioned not having padded shorts and seat discomfort. Padded shorts aren't so much for seat discomfort as they are about not sliding around in your shorts, eg the chamois is more for ANTI-FRICTION, particularly to protect you from friction due to the seams of the outer short. Yeah, they're a little bit for padding between you and the seat, but chamois in your shorts is not going to save you from an uncomfortable seat. Still it's worth getting a pair of lined shorts and trying them out before thinking about switching out the bike seat. Also, if you had to make any changes to seat position above, that may have already solved the seat issues.

If you've done all the tweaking to positioning that you can, you've gone out riding in your new chamois-lined shorts, and you're still having significant seat discomfort, now's the time to think about trying a different seat. You don't tell us what KIND of discomfort you're having from the saddle so I'm kind of guessing here. But I see that that saddle is very narrow and has no cutout. It actually looks more like a men's saddle to me, though it says it's WSD. If that seat is not working for you, try a different saddle with a cutout. Terry is one of the best manufacturers and designers for women's saddles. They have a 30 day return policy on their saddles, in other words you can try the saddle for 30 days and if it doesn't work for you, return it no questions asked. I would suggest you look more at recreational or all-purpose saddles, or maybe even touring saddles, since you're riding a hybrid.

PDF giving a side-by-side comparison of Terry's women's saddles:

http://terrybikes.forest.net/ftp/pub/2007_saddles.pdf

Link to Terry's womens saddles:

http://www.terrybicycles.com/saddles/womens

I hope that helps, even though it kind of disjointedly wanders all over the place.

[ZenSojourner]

Too many new bike riders start tweaking their bikes immediately after their first one or two rides, for every little achey muscle, and then later they wind up having to tweak all over again undoing what they did...only by that time they can't remember half the gazillion changes they made to their bike.

There's an element of truth to this, but I myself have left a bike shop with a bike that wasn't properly adjusted and no amount of waiting to get used to it will solve that problem.

So not so much tweaking, but checking to make sure things are positioned properly is an important thing to do with a new bike. If you check

seat level
seat fore-aft position
seat height (may have forgot to mention that in my other post)
handlebar height
(last resort) stem length

You should ride for awhile with all those things properly adjusted before trying any actual tweaking or replacement of parts (such as the stem or the saddle).

Varying from the standard positions is tweaking (I guess I used the term tweaking in my other post when I shouldn't have), but you need to make sure things are IN standard positions before you decide where they OUGHT to be.

[seychelle]

Just wanted to say thanks to you both for your responses. I'm going to read and digest what you've posted before asking any more questions. Anyone else that wants to chime in, please do!

And to answer BleeckerSt_Girl's question, it was a mix of procrastination, health issues. I had forgotten I had this account (not that that stopped me from getting a bike).

Addendum: I'm 45 and I used to run. I randomly run now on account of foot injuries and when I do it has to be on a TM. That bores me to death, so I am not very consistent with it.

Regarding the seat, I questioned it at the bike shop because it looks very "male like" to me and the guy said to give it a try first and see how it felt after a while. I could change it out later if needed. I'm just sore in the boney area in spite of my ample natural padding.


Yet another question (without having read all the links, etc). Shouldn't the bike shop guy have done all the measuring/adjusting ZenSojourner mentioned? Hmmm.

[canonsue]

I am also a new rider so my take and experience with the saddle is that it takes some seat-time to toughen things up. I figure a little soreness near the seat bones is normal.

-Sue

[tctrek]

It's normal to be a little sore between the shoulders or on your butt or other areas after a long ride or a hard ride, but it's really not good for the bike to feel uncomfortable during the entire ride or on shorter, less strenuous rides. Saddles are a crazy thing.. what works for one person might not for someone else and we each need to find what works for our anatomy. So listen to your body and if something hurts from the git-go, it probably needs some sort of adjustment.

[ZenSojourner]

Yet another question (without having read all the links, etc). Shouldn't the bike shop guy have done all the measuring/adjusting ZenSojourner mentioned? Hmmm.

Yes, they should have, but they almost never do, especially for women. They should have put the bike on the trainer and you on the bike at the very least, and done all this adjusting with levels and plumb bobs calipers and what not.

There are actually special not-bikes that are just for fitting (do they still have the Fit Kit?), someone specially trained in their use puts you on this thing that isn't really a bike, but IS set up to take all sorts of measurements and angles and what-not so you can figure out what kind of bike geometry fits you best (as opposed to trying to make you fit the bike they have on the floor to sell to you).

This usually costs money, on the order of $150 10 or 15 years ago, it may be more now.

But at the least, bike on the trainer, you on the bike, bike tech with a level and a plumb bob adjusting everything to standard if not optimal settings/positions. That's why I say you need to check this because in my experience, noobs buying a bike almost never get this done because they don't know to ask for it and most sales guys either don't care or they don't know how to do it. Or both. Especially with that steep seat tube angle, seat height and position (and level) is really important.

The last time I went through this with a new bike, I ended up having to take the bike to a different store than where I bought it to get it fitted. NOTHING was in the right place because the first shop had just eyeballed it and called it good. Heck, they hadn't even installed my brakes properly! They came loose and were flopping around 2 miles into my first ride.

Once things were adjusted to "standard", I could ride around on it and see where changes might be needed, it only had to be "tweaked" once, then I had to go back when I replaced the seat. But that was it, just get it into "standard" shape and you probably won't have to tweak much.

Well, dang, you won't have to tweak much if the bike fits you pretty well. If it doesn't you could be tweaking for awhile, but you won't know that until you get all the adjustments set up properly.

You said you didn't get what you expected - what did you go into the bike shop looking for, and why did you not end up with that?

Just wondering, not to pry.

[aicabsolut]

They should have done a basic fit, but for someone new to the sport, it is common to just have things set up how you generally feel comfortable tooling around the parking lot. This is because where you feel safe or confident may be an awkward (physically) position. There are also plenty of things you won't realize about your fit needs until you've been riding for a while. So, I would expect that you may want to adapt your fit quite a bit over the next few months.

When I was new, I was set up with a very relaxed fit. Raised stem, which put my saddle a bit far back and low.

I got a lot of stiffness in my neck and shoulders, even though I naturally have a relaxed posture with a fair amount of elbow bend. Turns out that my reach was too short for my proportions and flexibility, and by lowering the stem a ton (thereby increasing my reach), the neck issue went away. I also enjoyed better handling and was able to move my saddle into a position where i could generate more power overall...at least eventually.

Over the years, I've dropped the stem even more, and I've moved to a more aggressive bike. I got some neck tension with my last change (indicating I may have gone too far), but I adapted. It wasn't that big of a change. Now riding the older bike, the reach feels so short (with less than 2cm difference).

I would go ask them to do a basic fit for you. Keep in mind that this will very likely not be your last fit for very long. Before you play around too much, though, spend some time on the bike, pay attention to your body, and read up on various bike fit theories.

[cylegoddess]

A lady asked Lance Armstrong , Mr Armstrong I just bought a bike and gee, my rear end really hurts! When does it stop?
Lance, being Lance said - Lady my a@@ hurts all the time!!

I love that!