HIIIYAAA!!! Martial Arts anyone?

[ZenSojourner]

I did take a course on tai chi ages ago and practiced it briefly. Depending on the type/school of tai chi there is a whole sequence of movements to remember. 108 movements is the minimum...yea that's what you are seeing when you see that group of seniors doing their thing in the park.

You know I almost missed this.

You are mistaken. What you see the senior citizens doing in the park is the 24 form version.

The 108 form version is entirely different.

The 24 form version was developed in 1956 and Tai Chi purists HATE it, they consider it near sacrilegious because it's intended for exercise, flexibility, and a little bit as a form of moving meditation. It was developed to promote health and physical fitness by the communist regime in power at the time and almost totally ignores Tai Chi's origin as a martial art (at least according to the Tai Chi enthusiasts who hate it).

Sometime in the 70's the Chinese government sponsored development of a slightly longer, 48 form version.

That's exactly what I want out of Tai Chi.

There's another 37 form version which I'm pretty sure is a shortened form of the 108 form Yang version. That link someone gave to the Taoist Tai Chi Society is yet another shortened version of the Yang forms.

Tai Chi, even when practiced as a martial art, is extremely organic and there are more different versions out there than you can shake a stick at. I'm sure that's at least part of the reason there's no formal hierarchy like there is in some of the other martial arts.

[shootingstar]

The 24 form version was developed in 1956 and Tai Chi purists HATE it, they consider it near sacrilegious because it's intended for exercise, flexibility, and a little bit as a form of moving meditation. It was developed to promote health and physical fitness by the communist regime in power at the time and almost totally ignores Tai Chi's origin as a martial art (at least according to the Tai Chi enthusiasts who hate it).

Sometime in the 70's the Chinese government sponsored development of a slightly longer, 48 form version.

That's exactly what I want out of Tai Chi.

There's another 37 form version which I'm pretty sure is a shortened form of the 108 form Yang version. That link someone gave to the Taoist Tai Chi Society is yet another shortened version of the Yang forms.

Tai Chi, even when practiced as a martial art, is extremely organic and there are more different versions out there than you can shake a stick at. I'm sure that's at least part of the reason there's no formal hierarchy like there is in some of the other martial arts.

I only took 1 course, Zensoujourner and perhaps I confused with what I was told by the instructor....there were 100+ movements we had to memorize for a whole sequence.

Precisely there are different versions of Tai Chi..which I didn't take time to memorize the different types.

Hope you do find a course to learn with a group/instructor some day. Maybe one of those contacts in list...will lead you to a network to eventually a practitioner who does practice what you want.

[Trek420]

You know I almost missed this.

You are mistaken. What you see the senior citizens doing in the park is the 24 form version.

Well, we would not want to miss an error.

For one how do you know what anyone sees done in a park? Could be any form or all of them.

More important I feel Shootingstar has taken a class, worked with an instructor, was good enough to share some of that good info with you and all of us. What you learn in a school regardless of style is respect for the art, your instructors, your fellow students and thus for all life.

Anything else is just waving your arms around.

If you can't find a school or teacher near you for classes several times weekly look for a workshop relatively nearby that you could go to from time to time to brush up on the forms and the philosophy.

[ZenSojourner]

I happen to know what's done in the parks because I know people who have actually done it. Chinese people as a matter of fact. From China. Who have actually spent most every morning and evening participating for most of their lives. In China. Where Tai Chi was developed. As a Chinese form of martial arts. By Chinese people. Subsequently simplified at the behest of the Chinese government. In order to be taught to Chinese people. By other Chinese people.

Born in China, practiced Tai Chi (short form) in China, versus one class stateside in long form Tai Chi.

Get my drift?

No offense, Shooting Star. I thank you for sharing what you do know about Tai Chi.

Here are some links if you're interested:

http://www.blinkx.com/video/china-te...pYVcJUYLhYkVBg

http://www.everyday-taichi.com/beijing-24-form.html

From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24_Form...i_Chi_Ch%27uan

The form was the result of an effort by the Chinese Sports Committee which, in 1956, brought together four tai chi teachers to create a simplified form of tai chi as exercise for the masses. The creators truncated the traditional Yang family hand form to 24 postures; taking between four and eight minutes to perform and to give the beginner an introduction to the essential elements of tai chi chuan, yet retain the traditional flavor of Yang style's longer hand forms (generally 88-108 postures).[1] Henceforth this form was avidly promoted by the People's Republic of China for general exercise, and was also taught to internees in Communist "re-education" camps. Due to this official promotion, the twenty-four form is most likely the tai chi form with the most practitioners in China and the world over (though no surveys have been performed).

What Shooting star was talking about was one of the long forms of Tai Chi, actually practiced as a martial art, and comprised of (he was EXACTLY right here) 108 forms. It's very complicated, it's intended for application as a martial art, and I wouldn't fool myself into thinking I could get even close on my own trying to learn that. That would be like trying to learn Ju Jitsu from comic books.

But that isn't what the masses of Chinese people you see on TV are doing in the park, it's far too complicated. They use the short form (see above).

Even with the short form, it would be better to have an instructor, but since I'm not trying to become a Master of the 108 Forms of Yang Family Tai Chi, I can get close enough for MY purposes, which are health and meditation related, not martial art related.

I'm guessing most of you aren't rural and have never lived rurally, or you've forgotten what its like if you have. Let's just say there's not a lot of diversity here and leave it at that.

Now if I were willing to drive to Charleston, I might be able to find somebody doing Tai Chi, but I'm neither willing or able to make a 120 mile round trip for something so frivolous. I've got an 89 year old parent with 2 kinds of cancer, COPD, CHF, and the creeping onset of dementia that I'm trying to care for on top of a full load in a doctoral program - I don't have time to go gallivanting off to Charleston for R&R.

I can, however, steal enough time to stand in the driveway and, as you so kindly put it, "wave my arms around".

Since I have no sangha here, I will use whatever tools I can find to help me in my practice. If half-assed Beijing 24 form Tai Chi is the best I can manage, I'm pretty sure the Buddha won't hold it against me.

[tulip]

Hey Sojourner, chill out. We're not attacking you.

Peace.

[ZenSojourner]

Whatever.

[fastdogs]

also a black belt, first degree, in taekwondo. I started as a teenager in a korean style called tang soo do moo duk kwon, then continued with tae kwon do. When I was stationed in Korea I continued classes and took my black belt test at kukkiwon, the world tae kwon do headquarters.
When I started I just took whatever class was available. I've always been fascinated by some of the kung fu styles, and aikido.
I'd like to get my son into martial arts, but it's hard to find good instructors for kids (he's 5). I think it's good for just about anyone, but especially kids.
vickie

[Trek420]

Just back from a 2 hour class. boy am I sore, tired, hungry .... small class, just 4 of us students and all beginners. Well I'm not a beginner but it's a different dojo so things are new to me. Another gal the sensei said it was her 3rd claass. WTF she's this good on the 3rd class? I find out she did jiu jitsu before.

One of the students expressed concerned our teacher would be bored with 4 beginners till he said "I'd rather do basics every day for years with you and gain a rock solid foundation than rush ahead to do advanced techniques badly"

Zen, if you can't find a class near you or a neighbor who's trained do what basics you can do as well as you can. Find one move, do it as well as you can.

But everyone needs "mat time", or lawn time or yard time or whatever.

Gotta train with others, gotta find a teacher even if it's once year to see and have your technique seen. I hope you find a dojo (I'm sure it's not called that but just the jargon I know).