HIIIYAAA!!! Martial Arts anyone?

[polly4711]

First of all, I LOVE how dynamic TE-ers are!!! yay!

Thank you very much for your advice. There are a few near by, and I'll check those out. I definately want to lose some weight and just be more active. I'll probably go check it out this weekend (if it's raining).

I will keep you all updated!

[ZenSojourner]

Firstly, I'm living in Appalachia.

No tai chi practitioners here, let alone instructors.

As for the "mental" thing - I'm a Buddhist. I'm further down that road than the average bear.

I am fully well aware of how many different moves there are. You start with the first one, learn it as best you can (with no one to show you), and move on.

It doesn't worry me if I don't get it down perfectly. But I'll be dipped if I'm not even going to TRY just because there's nobody around claiming superior knowledge to pass on to me, LOL!

Tai chi doesn't have any regulatory agency or specific requirements before someone can hang a shingle out claiming to be a Tai Chi Master. So even if there WERE someone around making the claim that wouldn't mean they were actually trained or had any actual level of expertise.

I'll just have to do the best I can. Because I'm not going to sit around and NOT do anything just because there's no one around to hold my hand. That's silly.

[ZenSojourner]

I did take a course on tai chi ages ago and practiced it briefly. Depending on the type/school of tai chi there is a whole sequence of movements to remember. 108 movements is the minimum...yea that's what you are seeing when you see that group of seniors doing their thing in the park.

You know I almost missed this.

You are mistaken. What you see the senior citizens doing in the park is the 24 form version.

The 108 form version is entirely different.

The 24 form version was developed in 1956 and Tai Chi purists HATE it, they consider it near sacrilegious because it's intended for exercise, flexibility, and a little bit as a form of moving meditation. It was developed to promote health and physical fitness by the communist regime in power at the time and almost totally ignores Tai Chi's origin as a martial art (at least according to the Tai Chi enthusiasts who hate it).

Sometime in the 70's the Chinese government sponsored development of a slightly longer, 48 form version.

That's exactly what I want out of Tai Chi.

There's another 37 form version which I'm pretty sure is a shortened form of the 108 form Yang version. That link someone gave to the Taoist Tai Chi Society is yet another shortened version of the Yang forms.

Tai Chi, even when practiced as a martial art, is extremely organic and there are more different versions out there than you can shake a stick at. I'm sure that's at least part of the reason there's no formal hierarchy like there is in some of the other martial arts.

[Trek420]

Another black belt and instructor here (Kenpo karate).

oooooh, I love Kenpo. If I was to take up a "hard style" it'd be Kenpo.

Beautiful art.

Zen, I'm not saying do Aikido just because I've been doing it since oh about 1980. But I find it hard to believe there is no instructor nearby even where you are. We are everywhere, like oh ... nevermind. Considered a "soft style" some dojos have Tai Chi or at least someone who'll stay after class and work with you a bit.

www.ai-ki-do.org go to the "dojo locator" and click on the map.

[shootingstar]

The 24 form version was developed in 1956 and Tai Chi purists HATE it, they consider it near sacrilegious because it's intended for exercise, flexibility, and a little bit as a form of moving meditation. It was developed to promote health and physical fitness by the communist regime in power at the time and almost totally ignores Tai Chi's origin as a martial art (at least according to the Tai Chi enthusiasts who hate it).

Sometime in the 70's the Chinese government sponsored development of a slightly longer, 48 form version.

That's exactly what I want out of Tai Chi.

There's another 37 form version which I'm pretty sure is a shortened form of the 108 form Yang version. That link someone gave to the Taoist Tai Chi Society is yet another shortened version of the Yang forms.

Tai Chi, even when practiced as a martial art, is extremely organic and there are more different versions out there than you can shake a stick at. I'm sure that's at least part of the reason there's no formal hierarchy like there is in some of the other martial arts.

I only took 1 course, Zensoujourner and perhaps I confused with what I was told by the instructor....there were 100+ movements we had to memorize for a whole sequence.

Precisely there are different versions of Tai Chi..which I didn't take time to memorize the different types.

Hope you do find a course to learn with a group/instructor some day. Maybe one of those contacts in list...will lead you to a network to eventually a practitioner who does practice what you want.

[Trek420]

You know I almost missed this.

You are mistaken. What you see the senior citizens doing in the park is the 24 form version.

Well, we would not want to miss an error.

For one how do you know what anyone sees done in a park? Could be any form or all of them.

More important I feel Shootingstar has taken a class, worked with an instructor, was good enough to share some of that good info with you and all of us. What you learn in a school regardless of style is respect for the art, your instructors, your fellow students and thus for all life.

Anything else is just waving your arms around.

If you can't find a school or teacher near you for classes several times weekly look for a workshop relatively nearby that you could go to from time to time to brush up on the forms and the philosophy.

[ZenSojourner]

I happen to know what's done in the parks because I know people who have actually done it. Chinese people as a matter of fact. From China. Who have actually spent most every morning and evening participating for most of their lives. In China. Where Tai Chi was developed. As a Chinese form of martial arts. By Chinese people. Subsequently simplified at the behest of the Chinese government. In order to be taught to Chinese people. By other Chinese people.

Born in China, practiced Tai Chi (short form) in China, versus one class stateside in long form Tai Chi.

Get my drift?

No offense, Shooting Star. I thank you for sharing what you do know about Tai Chi.

Here are some links if you're interested:

http://www.blinkx.com/video/china-te...pYVcJUYLhYkVBg

http://www.everyday-taichi.com/beijing-24-form.html

From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24_Form...i_Chi_Ch%27uan

The form was the result of an effort by the Chinese Sports Committee which, in 1956, brought together four tai chi teachers to create a simplified form of tai chi as exercise for the masses. The creators truncated the traditional Yang family hand form to 24 postures; taking between four and eight minutes to perform and to give the beginner an introduction to the essential elements of tai chi chuan, yet retain the traditional flavor of Yang style's longer hand forms (generally 88-108 postures).[1] Henceforth this form was avidly promoted by the People's Republic of China for general exercise, and was also taught to internees in Communist "re-education" camps. Due to this official promotion, the twenty-four form is most likely the tai chi form with the most practitioners in China and the world over (though no surveys have been performed).

What Shooting star was talking about was one of the long forms of Tai Chi, actually practiced as a martial art, and comprised of (he was EXACTLY right here) 108 forms. It's very complicated, it's intended for application as a martial art, and I wouldn't fool myself into thinking I could get even close on my own trying to learn that. That would be like trying to learn Ju Jitsu from comic books.

But that isn't what the masses of Chinese people you see on TV are doing in the park, it's far too complicated. They use the short form (see above).

Even with the short form, it would be better to have an instructor, but since I'm not trying to become a Master of the 108 Forms of Yang Family Tai Chi, I can get close enough for MY purposes, which are health and meditation related, not martial art related.

I'm guessing most of you aren't rural and have never lived rurally, or you've forgotten what its like if you have. Let's just say there's not a lot of diversity here and leave it at that.

Now if I were willing to drive to Charleston, I might be able to find somebody doing Tai Chi, but I'm neither willing or able to make a 120 mile round trip for something so frivolous. I've got an 89 year old parent with 2 kinds of cancer, COPD, CHF, and the creeping onset of dementia that I'm trying to care for on top of a full load in a doctoral program - I don't have time to go gallivanting off to Charleston for R&R.

I can, however, steal enough time to stand in the driveway and, as you so kindly put it, "wave my arms around".

Since I have no sangha here, I will use whatever tools I can find to help me in my practice. If half-assed Beijing 24 form Tai Chi is the best I can manage, I'm pretty sure the Buddha won't hold it against me.

[tulip]

Hey Sojourner, chill out. We're not attacking you.

Peace.

[ZenSojourner]

Whatever.

[fastdogs]

also a black belt, first degree, in taekwondo. I started as a teenager in a korean style called tang soo do moo duk kwon, then continued with tae kwon do. When I was stationed in Korea I continued classes and took my black belt test at kukkiwon, the world tae kwon do headquarters.
When I started I just took whatever class was available. I've always been fascinated by some of the kung fu styles, and aikido.
I'd like to get my son into martial arts, but it's hard to find good instructors for kids (he's 5). I think it's good for just about anyone, but especially kids.
vickie

[Trek420]

Just back from a 2 hour class. boy am I sore, tired, hungry .... small class, just 4 of us students and all beginners. Well I'm not a beginner but it's a different dojo so things are new to me. Another gal the sensei said it was her 3rd claass. WTF she's this good on the 3rd class? I find out she did jiu jitsu before.

One of the students expressed concerned our teacher would be bored with 4 beginners till he said "I'd rather do basics every day for years with you and gain a rock solid foundation than rush ahead to do advanced techniques badly"

Zen, if you can't find a class near you or a neighbor who's trained do what basics you can do as well as you can. Find one move, do it as well as you can.

But everyone needs "mat time", or lawn time or yard time or whatever.

Gotta train with others, gotta find a teacher even if it's once year to see and have your technique seen. I hope you find a dojo (I'm sure it's not called that but just the jargon I know).

[sgtiger]

polly4711 - There's already a lot of great advice on finding an instructor that meets your personal style and needs, that I can't really think of anything to add ATMO.

In regarding fees, they can vary greatly for martial arts classes. It depends on the instructor and where it's taught. I've seen some that let you pay per class and offer a punch card for X amount of classes for a reduced rate off the per class fee. That can be a good option if you don't think you'll be able to attend classes on a regular basis.

Some places have an intro price that let's you take a handful of classes at a reduced rate for a short period of time to see if it's something you'd like to do. Then they'll charge a regular monthly fee that usually covers unlimited classes for the month. Usually these places offer a reduced rate if you commit to X amount of time - it could be 6 mos., 9mos., 1yr., 2yrs ( I never understood how people can know where they'll be in 2 yrs.) - similar to gym or health club memberships. That could be a great option if you love the classes and can attend at least 2-3 days a week. They might even offer special classes for members who hold a contract. Some even offer lifetime memberships for $$$$$. That practice is illegal in most states and I'd advise you to stay away from those establishments. Those types of companies get around the law by charging a low, so-called yearly maintenance fee and use pushy sales tactics to sell their products and services. They can usually be recognized by the fact that they don't openly disclose their rates. You have to make a special appointment to get a "personal" health evaluation, like they want to check your chi, before they will discuss prices. I'd report them to local authorities that handle consumer fraud and organizations that advocate for consumer protection.

There are martial arts co-ops similar to some yoga studios. It's a group of instructors who are independent from each other but teach at the same locale to cut down on their overhead. They may or may not teach the same discipline. Usually you sign up with a particular instructor at a set day(s)/time(s) of a week for whatever is that instructor's rate. Some co-ops may let you trade a time slot if there is a conflict that arises but to do so on a regular basis is frowned upon.

Don't overlook your local community education programs, community recreation programs ,community colleges, hospital health education classes and the Y. These are usually the most affordable options, but be aware that some of the instructors may not be masters and they may not have the accreditation necessary to give you a certificate/belt in that discipline. Those classes tend to be more for people who want to take the classes for fitness. However, the classes can be a great introduction to the style of martial art that's taught while you look for an instructor that's right for you. Of course, that is not true for all the instructors that teach at these establishments. Some of them may be accredited masters that hold day time jobs and want to share their love of the discipline during their free time to those who may not otherwise afford classes at a regular gym (just using it as a generic term - most disciplines have a special name for it because it's not only a place to work out but a special place of educational and spiritual growth where you're supposed to leave all your hostilities, baggage at the entrance). Or some of the instructors can actually be instructors/owners of their own gym that teach at these institutions as part of their community outreach programs. If that is the case, as an adult, you may be able to work your way up to the first colored belt; but you'll probably have to continue any advanced classes at their gym (though they may offer advanced classes for children).

None of the above establishments charge a fee to just sit in and watch a class, or at least, shouldn't. Some might even let you follow along for free your first visit or offer an open-to-visitors session. Sometimes not all classes are open out of respect to the members. It's really annoying when you're trying to focus or meditate in class and have visitors talk among themselves or interrupt while class is in session. Please wait 'til the class is over to make comments or ask questions. If you stick around for the end of the class, you may even be able to get feedback from the members themselves.

Another thing to keep in mind is that if you study one style of a particular martial art and earn a colored belt in that style, it won't automatically qualify you for that same level in another style. For example, the two main internationally recognized TaeKwonDo organizations are the World TaeKwonDo Federation (WTF) and the International TaeKwonDo Federation (ITF). If you should happen to move, it won't be too hard to find an instructor that is certified by these organizations. So, say if your previous instructor is a recognized WTF master and you move to Spain you'll be able to find another WTF master in that country who will recognize your belt level and achievement certificate from the WTF. However if you take classes from one of the smaller organizations - International TaeKwonDo Alliance(ITA) for example - and move to an area that doesn't have any of their accredited instructors, you're out of luck. You'll have to start over from square one, so do your research. It can be confusing with the names being so similar. Sometimes it's due to having a high level master disagreeing with the main organization and creating their own splinter group. Sometimes, I think, it's done on purpose by companies who are in it mainly for the $$$ and want to get people signed up who may have confused their company's name with an internationally recognized organization.

Whew! I didn't think it take so long when I started this post.

~sg