Never judge people on their appearance...

[lph]

sure. I just meant that people don't necessarily mean it literally.

Actually, if you think about it it's worse that the phrase implies that this talent just "happened" to a person and that it has nothing to do with hard work and dedication..

[Trek420]

sure. I just meant that people don't necessarily mean it literally.

In media here sometimes they do. We had a freeway situation here in which at zero dark 30 in the morning a truck was cruising down the freeway when right in front of him the pavement cracked or opened up. Driver managed to stop yet because this was on a turn he was left with the cab dangling part way out in space over an overpass.

I clicked on the morning news and caught the coverage. It was very subtle but there was this moment when the anchor of the news was praising the drivers alertness to see and skill in reacting to the problem, the first responders training paid off in getting him out of the cab in a tricky delicate dangerous situation, the highway patrol reacted quickly rerouting to minimize traffic problems and prevent a pileup, it all came together ... and the traffic guy just staring daggers at him "It .. was ... a ... miracle "

Yes, people please can we all just agree that in that situation it was all the right people at the right time with the right training, skill set, practice, work and knowledge?

When it comes to Susan's voice yes, call her gift from g*d but that performance took work. Singers compare their art to an athletic event as the vocal cords are muscles. You may have the pipes but phrasing like hers does not just happen singing in the shower. You may know how to phrase but can your lungs sustain and hold the breath to just the right point?

How many of us have talent but won't do the hard work to bring it to the peak? I've got the genes with two grandparents trained opera singers. But I don't use it or work it. What a waste. Her performance, a wake up call.

Are any of us, all of us wasting the gift?

[ZenSojourner]

sure. I just meant that people don't necessarily mean it literally.

Actually, if you think about it it's worse that the phrase implies that this talent just "happened" to a person and that it has nothing to do with hard work and dedication..

Yeah. I wasn't going to say it, but since you did, I agree. I HATE it when people talk about a talent as being "a gift from god". I saw an episode of "Touched By an Angel" - a show, btw, which I absolutely abhorred - where a poet's gift was attributed to her being able to hear the words that god was giving her and then writing it down on paper. So basically she was a glorified steno machine. E.g., god was whispering words in this woman's ear, so it had nothing to do with intestinal fortitude, hard work, or clear insight. She was just copying down what god told her. Like we're all just puppets reading the lines given to us. BLEAH!

Grrrr! True, you have to have some inborn talent to be a truly great singer or painter or whatever. But it's only hard work that polishes and hones an inborn talent to genius. That's the difference between your friends telling you how good your voice is, and the world telling you how good your voice is.

[Trek420]

you have to have some inborn talent to be a truly great singer or painter or whatever. But it's only hard work that polishes and hones an inborn talent to genius.

But but but .... if we "preach" (disclosure here I am just using the word and not putting this on any religion or pulpit, ok?) that hard work, preparation, study, practice and dedication to honing ones craft is the path to success and mastery of a skill but but but that means taking responsibility for our own failures or lack of success. We can't have that

Well (Trek puts hands on hips and stamps her feet) "I could do the Deathride too .... but I didn't train And I draw like a house on fire, I could put together a book like Spazzdog did but I haven't been willing to work on my art every day like she does ... and and I have a pretty good ear and the music genes, I could play music like BSG but I don't practice at all ...

If we make it seem the "overnight sensation" did not train and practice for years to only the enjoyment of her village and her cat, that fame and fortune miraculously happened then we can feel "that could be me. I sing in the shower pretty good. I could just walk out on stage and knock one out of the park"

We as a culture adore hearing about the player cut from the college team, working at Home Depot who tries out for a walk on position and joins the pro team. What we don't want to hear about is the training night and day before and after work to stay in shape. That would spoil the dream of "that could be me, I play ball pretty good"

Well, no, that could not be you. unless you do the work, then luck perhaps a higher power of your choosing is involved.

[lunacycles]

I'm a buddhist, so in my world view supposedly there is no "god." But I experience something akin to "god" (or freedom) when I remember this life is something I can wisely respond to, but generally not control. I think you are deluded if you believe you are in full control of the direction of your life or what happens to you. You can make wise decisions, brave choices, and hard work helps, but there are no guarantees. There certainly wasn't one for Susan Boyle, but she went out there anyway. We do not know the outcome: of this day, of this life. But we live it, and the more fully we live it the more miraculous it becomes. IMO.

The real miracle is the effect her performance is having on those milllions and millions who have witnessed it. To me that is a gift from god.

[Bruno28]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/c...-200904171707/

[bikerz]

I'm finding the whole Susan Boyle phenomena somewhat disturbing and provoking.

As a disclaimer I should say that I never watch reality shows - the combination of ego and cruelty totally depresses me, so I was leery of clicking on the link, especially when I saw the reactions of the audience and judges when she came on stage. Their treatment of her was one of the most shocking displays of rudeness I have ever seen, but I suppose that's part of what gives these shows their dramatic tension. "When you came out here, everyone was against you" says one judge. Really?! Wow. (And none of them apologized for their behavior afterward either.)

And then *shock* it turns out that she has a lovely voice, and sang a beautiful song very well, and aha! now everyone loves her. Tears in the judges' eyes, audience on their feet, millions of youtube viewings, etc.

But I find myself thinking - what if she weren't such a wonderful singer? What if she had a so-so voice, but she just really loved to sing? Would the cruelty and judgment have been warranted?

And what was so "surprising" to all of us about her performance? Was it that she was middle-aged, frumpy, with no "sex appeal," and people who look like that shouldn't be expected to have a "cheeky smile," to say nothing of talent? And is it only if they do have talent that they are then deserving of respect and dignity?

I had forwarded the video to a very wise friend who pointed out that Sarah Boyle has recorded and sung in front of audiences before, in fact she said she's sung pretty much all of her life. She walked out on stage in front of a huge audience with poise and confidence, and delivered a beautiful, professional-quality performance. The only thing that makes it surprising is our own preconceptions about her based on her appearance and background. Busted!

I keep thinking about myth-making and the "ugly duckling into swan" narrative, and how this can let us off the hook for our own judgment. The more I thought about it, the closer to home it all hit, because as a not-young, not-skinny cyclist and hiker, I've heard my share of jeers and criticism (from my own internal critic as well as from total strangers). And I find myself wishing I were stronger or faster than I am, so "then I could really show them all! And then wouldn't they feel surprised and embarrassed about their judgment of me?" But I'm not some amazing cycling super-star waiting for my chance to be discovered. So then what?

I'm currently studying some Buddhist mind-training teachings and one of them is "When Practicing Unconditional Acceptance, Start With Yourself." Believe it or not, it's harder than it seems! This whole Sarah Boyle thing is an incredible lesson for me in my own difficulty with unconditional acceptance for others and myself.

I wonder if anything will really change as a result of all this. Will audiences and judges on these shows become kinder and more respectful? Or is Sarah Boyle just the exception that proves the rule of who is expected to succeed in the entertainment world?

(Phew! I haven't posted in a while, and it's a long one! Hopefully it won't turn out to be a thread-killer, as so many of my posts tend to be!)

[sundial]

...I never watch reality shows - the combination of ego and cruelty totally depresses me...I've heard my share of jeers and criticism (from my own internal critic as well as from total strangers). And I find myself wishing I were stronger or faster than I am, so "then I could really show them all! And then wouldn't they feel surprised and embarrassed about their judgment of me?" But I'm not some amazing cycling super-star waiting for my chance to be discovered. So then what?

BikerZ, your words struck a note with me and I can truly empathize with you. We can continue to dismiss any of their shallow notions of what we are perceived to be and what we're capable of doing by continuing to do what we love. Confidence in ourselves will trump their criticism any day.

[BikeDutchess]

Excellent post, bikerz, you've put into words a lot of things that have been bothering me about this Susan Boyle hoopla but that I haven't been able to put together in an coherent way.

[shootingstar]

[QUOTE=bikerz;420269]I wonder if anything will really change as a result of all this. Will audiences and judges on these shows become kinder and more respectful?[QUOTE]

Not whole crowds of people, the herd mentality instinct will continue to be there. And the judges..as becoming "kinder" or more reticent in negative remarks, I find that hard to believe much change will happen on T.V. for especially reality show producers who want to maintain audience ratings and remain on T.V. These shows do not demonstrate subtlety in human behaviour and human relationships.

Which is why I never watched any of the reality shows. Bombastic, often hurtful human relationships or competing over something that is not even a real long-term sport/or any sport at all. The only useful thing is show how selfish and narcissistic, human beings can become.

I am willing to believe there will be a few individual tv viewers sparked to rethink their own personal situation and move on things they have longed to do for a long time. Some people need external VISUAL stories like S. Boyle's singing, played out in front of them, to give them the extra motivation.

[salsabike]

Go BikerZ! And that helps me say what I've been thinking, which is: I wonder how the cycling community would respond if Susan Boyle showed up on a bike? In a jersey and lycra? On an expensive bike? I am sure there are many cyclists who would not make fun of her or roll their eyes. And I'm equally sure that plenty would.

And while I am not religious myself, I really cannot understand why some people think it's okay to be rude to those who are. They're entitled to their own beliefs.

[PamNY]

Has anyone besides me wondered if the Susan Boyle phenomenon was planned? I don't watch this type of show, but it seems reasonable to assume that the people who produce the show have some idea of what's going to happen. It's also reasonable to assume that they know what will appeal to the public.

I'm not certain but I believe the uplifting, follow-your-dreams sort of theme is prevalent in at least some other televisions shows (Oprah) so the popularity of an event like this would not be a surprise.

Pam