"Special Women's Section"

[Tuckervill]

Reminded me of a Barenaked Ladies song:

My Big Sister
I like my big sister.
But I don't want to wear her coat.
It may be black
It may fit perfect
But you and I both know it's a girl's coat

Now I can handle some hand me downs
But shirts and sandals are out of bounds
Balls and games and such I don't mind
But a coat is over the line

Last time I checked, the so-called "WSD" designs - at least in the smallest sizes, where it makes the most difference - were no improvement over the old line. Specifically, I compared the new WSD line of Trek's to my old didn't-fit Trek 430? 420? (It was the cheap version of their excellent but not sized for women touring bike).

I discovered that the so-called WSD bikes actually had LONGER top tube lengths in their smallest sizes than my old Trek, which had a top tube that was already actually an inch to an inch and a half too long for that size frame.

In the larger sizes they may very well be suitable for taller women. But in the smaller sizes, if you stick with a 700c front wheel, there's no way to get the top tube short enough AND not have toe clip.

I stood in a bike shop one day and listened to a (male) employee telling a woman that if the forward reach was too long for her, they could just move the seat forward. I had to show HIM how to make sure the rider is properly positioned over the pedals (and that he COULDN'T move the seat much forward without violating that aspect of bike fit).

There are times when unisex is appropriate and times when it's not.

Socks, for instance. There's nothing about socks that ought to relegate them solely to people of only the XX or XY persuasion. (Well, discounting frilly socks, pink socks, socks with bunnies or ponies on them . . . )

Let me rephrase that.

There's nothing about PLAIN BLACK COTTON socks that says only males or only females should be wearing these socks.

When I was living in Puerto Rico and had to buy black socks for my son as part of his school uniform, I could not find plain black cotton socks in the boys department for love or money. However, being a non-sexual-segregation type of thinker, I quickly found plain black cotton socks in the GIRL's department. So I bought him six pairs. (Trust me, NOBODY wants to be wearing nylon socks, particularly BLACK nylon socks, in a Puerto Rican summer)

Later at a beach party some guy whose son was also attending the same school was bemoaning to me his inability to find Plain Black Cotton Socks for his son. I found them, sez I (all innocent and unawares). Where? queries he.

I told him where.

He HIT the flippin' ROOF. Well he would have had there been a roof. He started to read me the riot act about dressing my son in, quote, "GIRL'S CLOTHES". I didn't let this guy get to far into this ridiculous rant (he was wearing SOCKS fer cryin' out loud, not frilly undies).

"Maybe we should just talk about something else." quoth I.

"No, we should talk about NOTHING at all!" he screamed, wobbling off in high dudgeon, as if removing his unpleasant and inebriated presence was some sort of loss to me.

Hey, saved me getting rid of the jerk, LOL!

OK, so unisex socks are NOT ok, but unisex bikes are the only right way. WSD bikes are just a marketing ploy. They're no different than men's bikes except they're inferior. So if you're a serious cyclist you should buy a REAL (eg men's) bike.

But heaven forfend we start sock-cross-dressing!

You gotta laugh. And then go buy a Terry.

Sojourner

[Zen]

When I bought my second FX I wanted a high end model.
I need a WSD.

The top of the line for WSD is the 7.6 w/ Tiagra 9 speed.

The actual top of the line (meaning the reach would be too long for me) is 7.9 Ultegra 10 speed.

That chaps my arse.

[ZenSojourner]

That chaps my arse.

They got Bike Short Cream, for men or for women, for that . . . .

[Cataboo]

They got Bike Short Cream, for men or for women, for that . . . .

I heard just a day or so or a page or so ago, that that stuff can't touch mucous membranes.

[lph]

Hopping into the discussion way late, of course. In most cases I applaud manufacturers of sports gear for making stuff for both genders. Even though wsd stuff may not fit me, it's nice that someone made the effort. We all know that the alternative is unisex, which means "for men, lucky you if it fits".

But the point of wsd is catering to both genders, not treating women as a small special subgroup. It's not like women just now are starting to discover bikes, we've been here for a long time. You wouldn't find a "special men's section" in a magazine or bike store, why for women?

[ny biker]

When I bought my second FX I wanted a high end model.
I need a WSD.

The top of the line for WSD is the 7.6 w/ Tiagra 9 speed.

The actual top of the line (meaning the reach would be too long for me) is 7.9 Ultegra 10 speed.

That chaps my arse.

Now that is ridiculous. I would write to Trek about that. I would also talk to the owner of my LBS about it. They should be able to build up a WSD with the same components as the men's.

[ZenSojourner]

Trek isn't made in the US anymore. I think my doesn't-quite-fit Trek of many moons ago was one of the last that was made here.

I don't think they're all that responsive on these issues. I know they weren't for me when I finally figured out what was wrong with my Trek, which had been "fitted" to me. (Basically I found out later that meant whatever we have in the store that's sorta close-ish)

And btw, since they've gone to China for manufacturing, the bikes cost a LOT more.

Figure that one out.

[SpeedDreamin]

Trek isn't made in the US anymore.

You might wanna check your facts. Trek makes all their OCLV carbon bikes in Wisconsin and also a handful of other models, like some of the aluminum full-suspensions.

Yeah, most of their bikes are made overseas, but they still make quite a few here.

[ZenSojourner]

Hey, all I can tell you is what Trek told me, oh, about 6 or 7 years ago.

Terry was making all their bikes overseas, they've switched back to US manufacture.

I suspect that a lot of manufacturing is gradually coming back stateside because of quality issues. Unfortunately we've dismantled so much of our manufacturing infrastructure that I'm not sure it isn't too little, too late.

[Skierchickie]

I think it was 2 years ago that the Trek WSD rep was explaining the difference between the 5000 and the Madone line. She said the 5000 was the TCT carbon, and made overseas because they wanted to be able to offer a carbon bike for $2000. That the Madones were still made in Wisconsin. I think the lower-end ones have been made elsewhere for quite a while, and my '07 520 has a sticker that says "Made in the USA of foreign and domestic parts".