Facebook-delisting, changing status

[kelownagirl]

Less cranky about crap now. Deleting thoughtless comments.

[ny biker]

I don't have kids. But fwiw, I work in an office building where 3 of the floors are leased by the local community college, and they hold classes here, so I see plenty of teenagers around the building every day. And I am amazed at how clueless they are. They literally don't know you are standing next to them in the elevator. And it's not because they are stupid or poorly raised, it's just obvious that their brains are not fully grown up yet. I'm sure I was just as clueless when I was that age.

So I do think that parents need to be involved as closely as possible in what their teenaged kids are up to. There are better and worse ways to be involved, and hopefully more parents are figuring out the better ways than not. I know it's not easy to do.

And I'm no Carolyn Hax, Catriona, but if you're over 21 and your mother is still telling you what time to go to bed, I suspect that your family issues extend beyond privacy.

[Cataboo]

I appreciated that you have a point of view but until you have your own kids, you really don't know. You are being very idealistic. It also depends a great deal on the crowd that your kids are exposed to - it depends on SO much. I did all of the things that you have said, and I do consider myself a good parent. I'm sure if you ask my adult daughters, they will say the same thing. However, I will still be vigilant and question what my kids do because I want to keep them alive. That does not mean I am being a copy, or being over protective. I cannot believe how many of my kids friends are allowed to go to bush parties for example. I know for a fact that their kids are puking drunk and driving home afterwards. I let my daughter go to one, she was driving and I was positive she wouldn't drink. It was a huge mistake. She rolled the car one the drive home, even tho she was sober, simply b/c she was inexperienced. She was fine but stupid me for feeling peer pressure from the other parents, Yadda yadda, I could go on and on, but I ask politely that you consider the fact that you DON"T have kids when you continue to argue your point.

Kelownagirl,

I'm not arguing a point. I'm discussing things, I could discuss or argue either side of this. And my last post was asking people if they considered parental interventions when they were a teenager effective. I also started it off with "I sort of think" which I know is an awfully aggressive way to start a post. I stated early on that everyone should raise their kids how they like.

Becoming a parent, does not magically make anyone an authority on anything, nor does it make them magically a responsible person who worries about the implications of everything their children are doing. Nor does it make them an authority with more valid opinions or qualifications than others. It's pretty obvious that neither of us know much about each other's lives and experiences, but I'll give you the benefit of a doubt that you're literate, you're on the computer, you're human, so your opinions have validity and are based on experiences in your own life and were not formed in a bubble devoid of life experiences and other people - and I won't ask that you prove that based on some litmus test before I consider your opinions.

[Cataboo]

And I'm no Carolyn Hax, Catriona, but if you're over 21 and your mother is still telling you what time to go to bed, I suspect that your family issues extend beyond privacy.

Ha. It's a long term fight. She married into a family of night owls and produced 5 kids that are as well.

Her bedtime was at 9 pm, and the rest of us naturally wanted to stay up till 3 am.

40 years later, it still drives her nuts that we wouldn't just be good kids and go to sleep at 9.

It probably doesn't help that with my Dad's side of the family and the rest of us, we sorta routinely call each other at 2 or 3 am since we all know the rest of us are going to still be awake.

Mom also tells me to go pee if I'm visiting her and we're gonna leave the house to go to the mall or something.

She's a fairly adorable mother, but she's had a hard time letting go over worrying about every single aspect of our lives. I get phone calls to remind me to lock the doors at night as well. And given that she knows I'm often awake early to drive long distances in traffic, she worries about my sleep deprivation.

[Tuckervill]

No offense, Tuckervill, but it just ain't that simple. Teenage rebellion has nothing to do with going to kindergarten!! It has to do with the difficult transition from childhood to adulthood. The child invariably thinks they have completed the journey long before their impulse control, rational thinking, and good judgment have fully developed. As a parent, it is my RESPONSIBILITY to say "no" when my daughter wants to engage in adult-type behaviors when she is only 13. Kids really think they have it all figured out and cannot understand why they are not being treated like adults. I certainly recall how much smarter my own parents got once I really grew up - precisely because my judgment was impaired and I was just flat NOT as smart as I thought I was. You couldn't have convinced me at the time, but I needed my parents to clamp down a bit to keep me safe from myself! I resented the hell out of it, and that is teenage rebellion - and it is very natural.

No matter how good a kid is, they need guidance, rules and boundaries. You don't have to be a tyrant, but you can't really have a "mutual" relationship. Somebody has to be the parent. That is not master/subject - that is parent/child. It is not a bad thing.

I have 2 adult sons and one well on his way. My oldest child went all the way through school and is now a successful businessman with a family. My middle child went half way through school and is now a successful businessman. I was fortunate enough to have not scarred either one (much) by all the experimental parenting that we all endured during their childhoods. Once we settled on this paradigm, of mutual relationship devoid of school and and all it entails, we had more just downright happiness and joy on a day to day basis, while still living a successful life. Today is all we have, so joy for today is valuable to me.

I have a wonderful relationship with my oldest child--a mutual relationship based on human dignity and value, a friendship, with better benefits--we influence each other because we love each other. Those are the same principles that I have extended to my other children, regardless of their age. That's all.

I'll be the first to say that school is not the only problem with our society, and I can't really imagine our society without school. But many problems in our society can be traced to the too-early separation of children from their parents. That begins in kindergarten as a rule, and sometimes even earlier.

If you've never experienced any other way of life, you may not be able to imagine that teenage rebellion is not natural. Separation and independence ARE natural. Rebellion, no.

Karen

[Crankin]

My kids didn't rebel, either. They were very normal, in that they went to school, did activities, and actually managed to not drink or wreck any cars when they were in HS. I don't really know how we got so lucky. But we are friends as adults, and they both ask for advice. We don't see them as much, even the one who lives in the area, but that's OK. Our job was to launch them and we did it.
I don't think you have to have kids to know what's right. I worked with some very young, childless teachers who were so outstanding and had the "sixth sense" of what the kids needed. Both of my kids have this gene, even though they have are not teachers (still hoping the one in the military will go this way when he finishes).
I didn't stop doing any of the bad things I did when I was caught. But, I really was never caught doing anything too bad, compared to what was actually going on. I expected my kids to do the same, but I think they were a bit scared about what would happen if they drank and drove, took drugs, got someone pregnant, etc. My younger son was racing and no "bad stuff" would go into his body and the other one was busy with his music, writing, books, friends.
I think most parents are afraid of being honest with their kids, based on my experience as a teacher and as an observer of my peers.

[shootingstar]

As far as being a grown-up goes and using sites like Facebook, I feel they can be a valuable way to communicate. I also feel, however, that it can feed egotism (ie do we REALLY need to know excruciating details about what someone had for dinner or other little things unless there is a reason to?) and there is far too much dependence on making ones "voice heard". I do scan through my friends who have sites but if I have something to say to them, I say it privately. I really don't get things like Twitter - I don't have enough time to do my own things let alone read everyone else's. I sound harsh, I know.

As an aside from the use of FB by children and monitoring..

I'm afraid of cluttering my attention/brain with details about even my loved ones near and far away, on smaller details of their lives if getting on FB at this time.

haven't ruled out FB yet but for certain my nieces and nephews at this point, though polite kids that they are, probably can't be bothered with one of their ole fogey aunts, the inexplicable one riding around on her bike.

Haven't ruled out FB in personal life, but just gettin' family members to email more regularily is enough right now vs. by phone. Already I know one of them suspended her Internet account ages ago.... she is really on the budget edge, paying off her house mortgage-- solo. Parents will never be online....they are the older generation of working class immigrants. It's just a feat to speak and comprehend in the same language with them, particularily on complicated topics.

I'm one of the chattier ones online in the family, and also in my snail mail letters when sending gifts. Every one has a certain role in a birth family.

[kelownagirl]

Kelownagirl,

I'm not arguing a point. I'm discussing things, I could discuss or argue either side of this. And my last post was asking people if they considered parental interventions when they were a teenager effective. I also started it off with "I sort of think" which I know is an awfully aggressive way to start a post. I stated early on that everyone should raise their kids how they like.

Becoming a parent, does not magically make anyone an authority on anything, nor does it make them magically a responsible person who worries about the implications of everything their children are doing. Nor does it make them an authority with more valid opinions or qualifications than others. It's pretty obvious that neither of us know much about each other's lives and experiences, but I'll give you the benefit of a doubt that you're literate, you're on the computer, you're human, so your opinions have validity and are based on experiences in your own life and were not formed in a bubble devoid of life experiences and other people - and I won't ask that you prove that based on some litmus test before I consider your opinions.

Just ignore me, I was stressed out and cranky when I wrote that. Sorry

[Cataboo]

No worries, I was a little cranky in return.

[itself]

You know, the facebook thing, I just don't get. I'm savy with computers and new technology, but facebook makes no sense at all. Hotmail works for me. On facebook it seems like everyone can see your conversations, yuk.

And, another thing for parents to have to monitor.

Lisa

[Selkie]

I don't get Facebook either, but I tend to be private and try to mind my own business (a reaction to working in a very "incestuous" workplace where many people are overly nebby and/or vicious gossips).

All that said, I can understand why people enjoy Facebook, and if it makes them happy, that's super.

[Flybye]

No offense, Tuckervill, but it just ain't that simple. Teenage rebellion has nothing to do with going to kindergarten!! It has to do with the difficult transition from childhood to adulthood. The child invariably thinks they have completed the journey long before their impulse control, rational thinking, and good judgment have fully developed. As a parent, it is my RESPONSIBILITY to say "no" when my daughter wants to engage in adult-type behaviors when she is only 13. Kids really think they have it all figured out and cannot understand why they are not being treated like adults. I certainly recall how much smarter my own parents got once I really grew up - precisely because my judgment was impaired and I was just flat NOT as smart as I thought I was. You couldn't have convinced me at the time, but I needed my parents to clamp down a bit to keep me safe from myself! I resented the hell out of it, and that is teenage rebellion - and it is very natural.

No matter how good a kid is, they need guidance, rules and boundaries. You don't have to be a tyrant, but you can't really have a "mutual" relationship. Somebody has to be the parent. That is not master/subject - that is parent/child. It is not a bad thing.

I applaud you for taking a stand about parenting not being a mutual relationship. I agree with you wholeheartedly from a number of perspectives. First of all, I think that authority does not mean tyranny - that one can be in charge without being the awful dictator.
Secondly, as a intern in the middle school this year I have repeatedly heard the kids who are in trouble say "I'd never tell my mom/dad/parents this but I wish that they would put their foot down on me/sit on me more/be more in charge/pay more attention to what I was texting-doing with friends after school-doing online. From a theoretical perspective (Adlerian) kids act out because they want attention - from who??? most often parents.
I find that it is interesting that we are all for not letting our dogs think that they have dominance in the pet-master relationship but we are entrusted with CHILDREN and let them believe that they are mutual decision makers and mutal in the parent CHILD relationship.
The well adjusted kids that come in for help have parents who are in authority and set boundaries.
That being said, there is another end of the spectrum - kids whose parents are not authorities, but authoritarian - making every decision for them and not allowing them any room to breathe and make decisions on their own - those kids rebel in the process of finding their own identity.
and
since this thread is actually about Facebook I will say that one of the most important things a parent can do in the process of guiding a child through life is to have access to passwords. Cyberbullying is becoming more of an issue - so is "sexting". Again, as an intern counselor in the schools, we are trained to ask for Facebook/My Space account information from our kids - we gain so much insight into their lives by the information they give on these accounts - things like early alcohol/ drug use, sexuality, depression, cutting, suicide, etc. Big things. Important things. And I have never had a kid say no when I have asked in a curious way. And I don't use what I learn against them - I use it as an opener into topics that are new and scary for them - as a parent WHAT A FANTASTIC OPPORTUNITY - DON'T MISS IT!
okay, I have shared my $.02

[Mr. Bloom]

You are correct that kids can, and will hide stuff anyway.

Amen, but this ability doesn't absolve us of the responsibility of being a parent. Ours are 15 and 18 now...the older has near total freedom now because she's an adult (no matter how financially dependent she remains ), but rest assured that until that 18th birthday, we were responsible and engaged.

Until they're grown, knowing who they hang out with and what they're exposed to - online or offline - is a basic parenting responsibility. We can't protect them from all their mistakes, but we certainly can let them know that we're interested and observing.

Tonight, daddy's 18 year old little girl...will have her senior prom...and I'll be beaming with pride over who she's become!

[kelownagirl]

Amen, but this ability doesn't absolve us of the responsibility of being a parent. Ours are 15 and 18 now...the older has near total freedom now because she's an adult (no matter how financially dependent she remains ), but rest assured that until that 18th birthday, we were responsible and engaged.

Until they're grown, knowing who they hang out with and what they're exposed to - online or offline - is a basic parenting responsibility. We can't protect them from all their mistakes, but we certainly can let them know that we're interested and observing.

Tonight, daddy's 18 year old little girl...will have her senior prom...and I'll be beaming with pride over who she's become!

I agree exactly. The thing I'm going to do differently with my next teen (he's 11 now) is that I'm not going to be scared to call the parents of the kids I don't know. If he says he's staying over at friend's house, I am going to call an ask the parents if they will be home etc. If he's got nothing to hide, then he shouldn't balk at that. My girls didn't want me to do that because they thought it made me look overprotective and "no one else's mom does that... lol" stupid me for feeling that pressure. I have already let my son know the future ground rules.

When I see kids wandering the streets at 11pm, I wonder if their parents know where they are. I dont' want to be one of those parents.

[ny biker]

When I see kids wandering the streets at 11pm, I wonder if their parents know where they are. I dont' want to be one of those parents.

My sister and her husband have a rule for their three kids: they must ask a parent's permission before they go anyplace. This means that if my nephew is at a friend's house, and he and his buds want to go out to get some food or to a different friend's house or wherever, he has to call home and ask first. They're 17, 14 and 12, and they all accept this rule, and they understand the reason for it is that their parents just want to know where they are. So far it's worked out okay.