Facebook-delisting, changing status

[GeoCam]

But then, we live an unusual life, wherein school is not a factor (education is!), and therefore we have never had a cause for an adversarial parent/teenager relationship. We believe that "teenage rebellion" is not a natural occurrence, but one that is formed and created through the separation of children from their parents when they first begin school at age 4, 5 or 6.

. . . .

We live in a mutual relationship, instead of an master/subject one. If there is nothing to rebel against, there's no rebellion. ::shrug::

No offense, Tuckervill, but it just ain't that simple. Teenage rebellion has nothing to do with going to kindergarten!! It has to do with the difficult transition from childhood to adulthood. The child invariably thinks they have completed the journey long before their impulse control, rational thinking, and good judgment have fully developed. As a parent, it is my RESPONSIBILITY to say "no" when my daughter wants to engage in adult-type behaviors when she is only 13. Kids really think they have it all figured out and cannot understand why they are not being treated like adults. I certainly recall how much smarter my own parents got once I really grew up - precisely because my judgment was impaired and I was just flat NOT as smart as I thought I was. You couldn't have convinced me at the time, but I needed my parents to clamp down a bit to keep me safe from myself! I resented the hell out of it, and that is teenage rebellion - and it is very natural.

No matter how good a kid is, they need guidance, rules and boundaries. You don't have to be a tyrant, but you can't really have a "mutual" relationship. Somebody has to be the parent. That is not master/subject - that is parent/child. It is not a bad thing.

[Cataboo]

Btw, in my unscientific sociology experiment watching my facebook friend's account who announced his grandmother died around the time this thread started - Only 3 of his 228 facebook friends actually responded.

[Irulan]

As a parent, it is my RESPONSIBILITY to say "no" when my daughter wants to engage in adult-type behaviors when she is only 13.

Just curious, what adult-type behaviors are we talking about here? Taking the bus alone, throwing back a fifth of scotch, dating?

I'm a big believer in you've got to give them room to make mistakes they can learn from, and letting them be accountable for their own choices.

Computer and things like private facebook pages do complicate things. I'm pretty sure that if I had non adult children I'd want to check in too... too many kids do have poor judgement/lack of understanding about things of a titillating nature , and our culture doesn't help it.

[Biciclista]

I must say I'm glad that internet access wasn't so easy when my sons were below 15 or 16 years old!
I caught my one son looking at a graphic photo of lesbian lovers on the internet. He fled the room and denied it. I thought it was very funny but let him know that I didn't appreciate him lying. (that was before all the viruses and junk you can get on unsavory sites now)

As for being a snoopy parent, what we mostly did was threaten, and we lucked out with pretty good kids. As they've grown up they've told us a thing or two that they did when we thought they were being perfect, but nothing like sending nude pictures of themselves to their friends on facebook!!!!!!!!

[sgtiger]

Btw, in my unscientific sociology experiment watching my facebook friend's account who announced his grandmother died around the time this thread started - Only 3 of his 228 facebook friends actually responded.

Maybe some of them wrote him an email or called him. When I notice a post about difficulties my gfs are facing on facebook, I make sure to take time out to call. They do the same for me. Since the death of a loved one is of a personal nature, not everyone is going to post a public condolence. Although, I'm sure that, no, not everyone of those people are his true friends.

[Grog]

What a different upbringing I had!

I'm 31 now but I was on the pre-Internet (BBSs, for those who remember the good old days... and those forums that were updated once or twice daily by connecting to distant servers by phone lines with 2400 bps modems!) from... I don't know, age 12 or something? I made lots of friends of all sorts, some of whom became friends in-real-life, too, when I started going to local get togethers. My parents didn't really like me staying up late using the computer, but they didn't actively try to control my activities on it.

My parents gave myself and my brother a lot of autonomy. I wouldn't say freedom, I was grounded a number of times for various causes, but mostly not cleaning my room or fighting with my brother. I also had to help with the family business now and then. But it was always made clear that they trusted us to be responsible and make the right decisions. I was also a straight-A student, and I did some of the things mentioned above, and I still don't see what the problem was. I was empowered and it made me very mindful of my surroundings. I did get close to trouble, but I was never the one in trouble. Think about the sober kid at a party that prevents a drunk friend from leaving with a dubious man.

A few of the parties were held at my parents' place, in their attendance, and were always very decent. I can't recall for sure, but I think they encouraged me to invite my friends over. I was younger than many of them, so I guess meeting everybody was a way for my parents to confirm that they could trust my judgment.

Mind you, at 12 I was also running my own business. It was not just the fun stuff we were trusted with.

We had this conversation recently: my parents are so glad they gave us the freedom to make mistakes of our own. They are both from a family of 10+ kids where you had to look after yourself (and your younger siblings) because the parents had other things to do. To my parents, looking closely over my brother's and my shoulder would have been unthinkable. We both did a bunch of mistakes, sure, but nothing lethal. Knowing that my parents' expectations of me were very high, that they expected me to use good judgment as a teenager, I worked hard to live up to that expectation. I did some things they perhaps would have disagreed with, but nothing that was foolish.

One could say that today's dangers are so much worse. Sure, nobody wants their kid (or friend) to take crystal meth, because only one experiment and they might be stuck in it for verrry long, if not life. That wasn't around back then. Internet stalkers were perhaps not as much of an issue, although my experience says that they were around even 15 years ago. But I don't think that closely monitoring anyone's activities would prevent those anyway.

[Cataboo]

There was heroin & acid trips before there was crystal meth.

If you teach your kids to respect their bodies and to not need that sort of attention from the opposite sex, they won't be posting naked pictures on the internet.

However, that being said - the people that are posting naked pictures on the internet or sexting each other on the cell phones were the girls walking around in short skirts when I was in high school and dropping things so they could bend over... Or the ones who would walk around in their bra & undies in the locker room and then dash out to the gym to get something they forgot.

Grog, I'm older than you by a couple of years & I also did the BBS thing - but was on the internet by maybe 16. I had access in high school, and then a friend that I knew in college gave me his college passwords so I could get on the internet dial up.

I maybe met a couple people from the local bbs... The local high school (I went to a magnet one) ran a bbs, and you could just go to the football games or stop by their computer club and meet a lot of people. There was a commodore users group that held meetings at the library. My parents would let me go to a meeting if they were there.


I've been helping a lot of older people get on the internet lately - and I swear it takes more time to make sure they don't do risky thing with their credit card numbers and fill out every email they get... And in talking to them (they're like 60-70)... underage sex and the rest of that didn't get invented with this current generation.

[smurfalicious]

Ha ha! My mom is on Facebook, mostly I think because my sister in law is super into that stuff and got her to sign up. She's one of my friends, and that's cool with me. My mom is my best friend, always has been, always will be. I never really went through that whole embarrassed by my parents phase. I realized they got me places I wanted to go, and I liked my mom's company better than the emotional disasters that most teenage girls were. We had fun together. I got perfect grades, so sometimes I had "doctor's appointments" she had to pull me out of school for. Usually the doctor was at the lake with fishing poles, or the movie theater.

I hear you guys on the "perfect kids" thing though. There were girls in my honors classes that uh, to put it blatantly were scandalous hookers but everyone thought they were saints. They were smoking pot, drinking, sleeping with anything that would move. Of course their perfect status meant you had to overhear their conversations because they were impervious to rumors. I never did that and mom suspected I did because I was too innocent. I guess I got a lot of independence and responsibility for my little bro after the divorce and that was enough for me. I liked my mom trusting me to go out dancing with my best friend at the all ages club in town. Why would I blow that?

There is some girl who keeps sending me friend requests, I keep denying them. She went to my high school, but since I attended 3 and have zero friends I keep in touch with I don't remember her. The biggest things on her profile are her adoration of Sarah Palin and John McCain so I'm pretty stinking sure we weren't friends. Flaming liberal with two mommies that I am and all.

My "niece" just turned 17 and she's had phone taken away for certain text messages before. Her parents are amazing, if I thought I could be like them, I'd have kids. They have four, which seems like a lot but I would spend the day with all four of them any day because they are awesome kids. In the girls defense, the messages weren't that bad, she didn't mean for them to be, but in the eyes of teenage boys they could have been. So that was explained to her, and she had quite the puppy dog face because she doesn't think that way. I applaud her parents for being involved.

[GeoCam]

I think all of this just strikes a nerve for me because it is the nub of my greatest fear and uncertainty as a parent. I am a single mom and I adopted my girls, so there is no dad in the picture - I have to make all the decisions. Within the next few months the girls will be 12 and 14, and the issues we deal with are rapidly becoming more frequent and less clear-cut.

The "let them make their own mistakes" school of thought sounds great to me in theory and that is what I have pretty much done with them so far, but it is now starting to terrify me. It seems that the world is more dangerous now and that kids are exposed to more things at a much younger age. I have done my best to teach and prepare them, but it gets harder and harder to sit back and let them make their own mistakes as the consequences of bad decisions become more serious.

I know from my own experience that knowing right from wrong is not always enough. I was not a dumb kid - I was valedictorian of my high school class - but I did incredibly stupid things. I engaged in lots of potentially lethal behavior, almost on a daily basis. It was the 70's - sex, drugs, and rock & roll, with a whole lot of alcohol as well. I often think about how lucky I am that nothing really bad happened and marvel that my peers and I even managed to survive. My parents had no idea what I was up to. They thought I was a very responsible kid. I got straight A's. I had a job from the time I was 13 or 14. I paid for my own car and clothes, etc. They simply had no clue. I had 10 brothers and sisters and what my parents expected of me was to not cause them any trouble. I met their expectations because I never got caught.

I want to be much more vigilant than my parents were, but I don't want to make all of their decisions for them.

So I struggle all the time - where is the line between keeping them safe and being overprotective? I just don't know.

[Grog]

So I struggle all the time - where is the line between keeping them safe and being overprotective? I just don't know.

Great question indeed.

Good luck with your girls.

[shootingstar]

Well, this would be an interesting topic to ask my sisters --those that have much younger children.

I'm sure the 3rd sis, closest to my age is relieved her kids are adults now. She and hubby planted the Internet surfing/email computer in their living rm. To increase transparency of Internet surfing activities when kids were younger.
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Catriona, maybe one day decades later, you'll let your brother know that you were on the lookout for him. At this time, it might explode in your face if he knew what you did to monitor him. It takes awhile for siblings in some families to realize..siblings (those with healthy relationships, either close or distant) are one another's friends --for life. Then he will appreciate it..

[Cataboo]

Well, this would be an interesting topic to ask my sisters --those that have much younger children.

I'm sure the 3rd sis, closest to my age is relieved her kids are adults now. She and hubby planted the Internet surfing/email computer in their living rm. To increase transparency of Internet surfing activities when kids were younger.
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Catriona, maybe one day decades later, you'll let your brother know that you were on the lookout for him. At this time, it might explode in your face if he knew what you did to monitor him. It takes awhile for siblings in some families to realize..siblings (those with healthy relationships, either close or distant) are one another's friends --for life. Then he will appreciate it..

The main computer I used when I was in high school was sitting right next to a computer that my dad was always on. He usually was aware of what was up to - I never had to give him my passwords to anything, but given that I was right next to him - it was a given that my screen did get read on ocassion.

I guess my point is that - it's one thing to sit with your kids and go through their facebook page together and discuss it... but it's completely different to require that you have their passwords so that you can go through it completely. Do you sit at the door with a stethoscope when your kids are having slumber parties? If they have a penpal, do you take their letters and read them?

Oh, my brother still finds me a meddling..... whatever, but I am the one that he turns to when he's got a problem or needs something. And he'd go through the roof if I ever told him that I was doing that stuff.

[Tuckervill]

No offense, Tuckervill, but it just ain't that simple. Teenage rebellion has nothing to do with going to kindergarten!! It has to do with the difficult transition from childhood to adulthood. The child invariably thinks they have completed the journey long before their impulse control, rational thinking, and good judgment have fully developed. As a parent, it is my RESPONSIBILITY to say "no" when my daughter wants to engage in adult-type behaviors when she is only 13. Kids really think they have it all figured out and cannot understand why they are not being treated like adults. I certainly recall how much smarter my own parents got once I really grew up - precisely because my judgment was impaired and I was just flat NOT as smart as I thought I was. You couldn't have convinced me at the time, but I needed my parents to clamp down a bit to keep me safe from myself! I resented the hell out of it, and that is teenage rebellion - and it is very natural.

No matter how good a kid is, they need guidance, rules and boundaries. You don't have to be a tyrant, but you can't really have a "mutual" relationship. Somebody has to be the parent. That is not master/subject - that is parent/child. It is not a bad thing.

I have 2 adult sons and one well on his way. My oldest child went all the way through school and is now a successful businessman with a family. My middle child went half way through school and is now a successful businessman. I was fortunate enough to have not scarred either one (much) by all the experimental parenting that we all endured during their childhoods. Once we settled on this paradigm, of mutual relationship devoid of school and and all it entails, we had more just downright happiness and joy on a day to day basis, while still living a successful life. Today is all we have, so joy for today is valuable to me.

I have a wonderful relationship with my oldest child--a mutual relationship based on human dignity and value, a friendship, with better benefits--we influence each other because we love each other. Those are the same principles that I have extended to my other children, regardless of their age. That's all.

I'll be the first to say that school is not the only problem with our society, and I can't really imagine our society without school. But many problems in our society can be traced to the too-early separation of children from their parents. That begins in kindergarten as a rule, and sometimes even earlier.

If you've never experienced any other way of life, you may not be able to imagine that teenage rebellion is not natural. Separation and independence ARE natural. Rebellion, no.

Karen

[Crankin]

My kids didn't rebel, either. They were very normal, in that they went to school, did activities, and actually managed to not drink or wreck any cars when they were in HS. I don't really know how we got so lucky. But we are friends as adults, and they both ask for advice. We don't see them as much, even the one who lives in the area, but that's OK. Our job was to launch them and we did it.
I don't think you have to have kids to know what's right. I worked with some very young, childless teachers who were so outstanding and had the "sixth sense" of what the kids needed. Both of my kids have this gene, even though they have are not teachers (still hoping the one in the military will go this way when he finishes).
I didn't stop doing any of the bad things I did when I was caught. But, I really was never caught doing anything too bad, compared to what was actually going on. I expected my kids to do the same, but I think they were a bit scared about what would happen if they drank and drove, took drugs, got someone pregnant, etc. My younger son was racing and no "bad stuff" would go into his body and the other one was busy with his music, writing, books, friends.
I think most parents are afraid of being honest with their kids, based on my experience as a teacher and as an observer of my peers.

[Flybye]

No offense, Tuckervill, but it just ain't that simple. Teenage rebellion has nothing to do with going to kindergarten!! It has to do with the difficult transition from childhood to adulthood. The child invariably thinks they have completed the journey long before their impulse control, rational thinking, and good judgment have fully developed. As a parent, it is my RESPONSIBILITY to say "no" when my daughter wants to engage in adult-type behaviors when she is only 13. Kids really think they have it all figured out and cannot understand why they are not being treated like adults. I certainly recall how much smarter my own parents got once I really grew up - precisely because my judgment was impaired and I was just flat NOT as smart as I thought I was. You couldn't have convinced me at the time, but I needed my parents to clamp down a bit to keep me safe from myself! I resented the hell out of it, and that is teenage rebellion - and it is very natural.

No matter how good a kid is, they need guidance, rules and boundaries. You don't have to be a tyrant, but you can't really have a "mutual" relationship. Somebody has to be the parent. That is not master/subject - that is parent/child. It is not a bad thing.

I applaud you for taking a stand about parenting not being a mutual relationship. I agree with you wholeheartedly from a number of perspectives. First of all, I think that authority does not mean tyranny - that one can be in charge without being the awful dictator.
Secondly, as a intern in the middle school this year I have repeatedly heard the kids who are in trouble say "I'd never tell my mom/dad/parents this but I wish that they would put their foot down on me/sit on me more/be more in charge/pay more attention to what I was texting-doing with friends after school-doing online. From a theoretical perspective (Adlerian) kids act out because they want attention - from who??? most often parents.
I find that it is interesting that we are all for not letting our dogs think that they have dominance in the pet-master relationship but we are entrusted with CHILDREN and let them believe that they are mutual decision makers and mutal in the parent CHILD relationship.
The well adjusted kids that come in for help have parents who are in authority and set boundaries.
That being said, there is another end of the spectrum - kids whose parents are not authorities, but authoritarian - making every decision for them and not allowing them any room to breathe and make decisions on their own - those kids rebel in the process of finding their own identity.
and
since this thread is actually about Facebook I will say that one of the most important things a parent can do in the process of guiding a child through life is to have access to passwords. Cyberbullying is becoming more of an issue - so is "sexting". Again, as an intern counselor in the schools, we are trained to ask for Facebook/My Space account information from our kids - we gain so much insight into their lives by the information they give on these accounts - things like early alcohol/ drug use, sexuality, depression, cutting, suicide, etc. Big things. Important things. And I have never had a kid say no when I have asked in a curious way. And I don't use what I learn against them - I use it as an opener into topics that are new and scary for them - as a parent WHAT A FANTASTIC OPPORTUNITY - DON'T MISS IT!
okay, I have shared my $.02