Facebook-delisting, changing status

[Cataboo]

Not that I'm a teenager anymore - but I gotta say, I'd have thrown a fit if my parents had wanted to keep track of all of that stuff. The same as I'd have found it bizarre if my parents wanted to hang out in my bedroom every time I had a slumber party with my girlfriends. Or read every note that I was passing in school. Or if they were reading my diary.

Privacy is and always has been extremely important to me - and I was well aware of the dangers of the internet when I was younger and the lecherous old men around - when I was younger there really wasn't all that many females on the internet and you were an instant target if you were. I typically would either pretend to be male or an unappealing female. Or older. And definitely privacy included privacy from my parents.

Actually, I'd have pitched a private fit and would have set things up so there were dummy accounts that my parents could see, and my real accounts that I could do what I wanted on - and that would have been a matter of principle. And, while my father was an engineer, I was way more computer savvy than he was and just naturally more at ease with them.

I don't remember what it was, but my parents would occasionally take away my internet access when I was grounded. Disconnect the phone line to my room. That usually entailed me waiting till my parents went to sleep, reconnecting the phone line to my room (reconnecting the wires in the utility room), having the old antiquitated commodore 64 in my room so i could play games (with a borrowed modem from a friend), dialing up and using the internet at night completely text based. I'd surf for a while, go disconnect my phone line, and go to sleep.

For the most part, I was a pretty good kid. I never drank, I never did drugs, I never partied. I did ocassionally sneak out to do wild things like... Hang out at the 24 hour walmart and maybe ride skateboards or bikes in the store. I do confess to having liked boys, though! I snuck out to a party once or twice, and being the responsible one that didn't drink, I spent way too much time babysitting the drunk kids, so I had no desire to go to parties after that.

Anyways - everyone can raise their kids how they want, but I know I resented and did not like it anytime my parents thought they had a right to invade my privacy just because - or couldn't trust me to make good choices.

I still keep my computers & email locked up pretty tight, even if I trust someone and it's pretty much an unforgivable sin if someone starts poking around in my accounts. And no... it's not like I'm up to anything on them.

[eclectic]

Not that I'm a teenager anymore - but I gotta say, I'd have thrown a fit if my parents had wanted to keep track of all of that stuff.
Anyways - everyone can raise their kids how they want, but I know I resented and did not like it anytime my parents thought they had a right to invade my privacy just because - or couldn't trust me to make good choices.
.

Just a question Catriona. Do you have any children?
If not you may understand your parents decisions a little better if you did.

If you do then I hope you have VERY trustworthy children and you never find anything out that will break that trust.

As an educator in a high school setting I applaud the parents who snoop. Kids talk in my class and parents would NEVER believe what their 4.0 honor roll sons and daughters are up to on the weekend and how many are going to the clinic across the street to get birth control, (they ARE 4.0 students after all and not stupid, I do have to commend them on that.) and how many are weekend pot smokers (their children would NEVER do drugs).
Perhaps if a few more parents would snoop there would be a little less of it going on.

But alas, even when confronted w/ evidence redhanded a lot of these parents still don't believe their little darlings would EVER do anything like that - their friends must have coerced them into doing it.

BTW I am friends on FB w/ my 21 yo daughter. We are both aware it is a public site. I think some of what she puts on there is inappropriate and tell her face to face (or by texting) I don't declare it on the site. AND most of the time we don't even check each other's out.

[Cataboo]

ecletic,

I haven't had kids, but I've had much younger brothers & my father died early enough that I did play a big role in their teenage years and I knew myself and how I responded to my parents and how basically all 5 of us kids did... It was impossible to actually talk to my parents or to go to them with problems because of the overreaction or the consequences. I'm definitely not trying to demean or insult my parents in anyway or how they raised us - because we all turned out fine, I love them, and I get why they did the things they did. However, they did create 5 kids that are extremely secretive, can't go to them to calmly discuss their problems and get advice and the rest of that, and all of us still go to each other for advice instead of our mother.

Anyways in regards to my younger brother - yes - I snooped when he was a teenager, there'd been a few deaths & illnesses in the family & I was pretty concerned about his mental health and possibly self destructive behavior at various points. But I snooped very carefully knowing that my younger brother was way more computer savvy than I was and very bright and if at any point he suspected, he'd be able to lock me out of all his accounts and his computer to the extent that I'd never find anything. Now, I guess I could have had my mother take away his computer in retaliation for him locking me out of everything - but the reality was that the computer was an extremely good outlet for him, he's still great with them, and he writes extremely powerful prose & poetry to express his feelings - and he never really shows that stuff to anyone but a few of his closest friends. Without a computer, he'd have lost a valuable outlet that was helping him cope, or he'd have gone to a library or stayed at school to do that stuff, or done it on friend's computers - and I wouldn't have access to that.

But for the most part, I was a non-judgemental snoop, if what I found was concerning enough or he expressed a wish to have a therapist to a friend and didn't think we'd go for the idea.... I'd wait a few weeks or whatever, get my mother on board, and maneuver a conversation to offer it to him. Mostly he was a good kid that worked hard in school and had teenage angst, he experimented a little bit with drinking, maybe said off color things, etc. When I knew he was doing some drinking, it was obvious he really wasn't enjoying it - it was making sure he could spend a night at the person's house he was doing it with to make sure he or noone else wouldn't be driving and the opportunity to do it a few times was enough for him to realize that it wasn't fixing anything and that was the end of that.

Now, I suppose you could argue that maybe if I'd chewed him out everytime he said something off color to his friends or knew he was drinking, that he'd be a better person today - but I just did my best to provide guidance without him realizing I was snooping and left it at that.

[Tuckervill]

It was impossible to actually talk to my parents or to go to them with problems because of the overreaction or the consequences.

This is EXACTLY why I have access to my (last) son (at home)'s passwords. (My older sons are adults and I'm not entitled to their passwords anymore.) We've never over-reacted to problems or imposed unnatural consequences for things that happen, or things he's done. Thus, he trusts me to look out for his best interest and he gives them to me willingly; he's even relieved that he doesn't have to hide anything.

But then, we live an unusual life, wherein school is not a factor (education is!), and therefore we have never had a cause for an adversarial parent/teenager relationship. We believe that "teenage rebellion" is not a natural occurrence, but one that is formed and created through the separation of children from their parents when they first begin school at age 4, 5 or 6.

I know what you're thinking: Mama's boy. Shivering little weinie hiding behind his mother's apron. Nah. He is 15 and has his own car (still learning to drive), a job and his own money. He flies across the country alone to visit friends regularly. He can bicycle all over town, to the movies, etc., and he does. He is a regular at our gym during the day and all the old ladies love him.

I know what else you're thinking: A kid with no consequences=spoiled brat. Nah. Actions have their own consequences. I don't have to impose them. If he doesn't do his laundry, he has no clean clothes. If he leaves his bike out in the rain, rusty bike. If he doesn't call to tell me he won't be home by dinner, I might worry and be a little less willing to believe him when he says he'll be home next time.

We live in a mutual relationship, instead of an master/subject one. If there is nothing to rebel against, there's no rebellion. ::shrug::

Karen

[GeoCam]

But then, we live an unusual life, wherein school is not a factor (education is!), and therefore we have never had a cause for an adversarial parent/teenager relationship. We believe that "teenage rebellion" is not a natural occurrence, but one that is formed and created through the separation of children from their parents when they first begin school at age 4, 5 or 6.

. . . .

We live in a mutual relationship, instead of an master/subject one. If there is nothing to rebel against, there's no rebellion. ::shrug::

No offense, Tuckervill, but it just ain't that simple. Teenage rebellion has nothing to do with going to kindergarten!! It has to do with the difficult transition from childhood to adulthood. The child invariably thinks they have completed the journey long before their impulse control, rational thinking, and good judgment have fully developed. As a parent, it is my RESPONSIBILITY to say "no" when my daughter wants to engage in adult-type behaviors when she is only 13. Kids really think they have it all figured out and cannot understand why they are not being treated like adults. I certainly recall how much smarter my own parents got once I really grew up - precisely because my judgment was impaired and I was just flat NOT as smart as I thought I was. You couldn't have convinced me at the time, but I needed my parents to clamp down a bit to keep me safe from myself! I resented the hell out of it, and that is teenage rebellion - and it is very natural.

No matter how good a kid is, they need guidance, rules and boundaries. You don't have to be a tyrant, but you can't really have a "mutual" relationship. Somebody has to be the parent. That is not master/subject - that is parent/child. It is not a bad thing.

[Cataboo]

Btw, in my unscientific sociology experiment watching my facebook friend's account who announced his grandmother died around the time this thread started - Only 3 of his 228 facebook friends actually responded.

[Irulan]

As a parent, it is my RESPONSIBILITY to say "no" when my daughter wants to engage in adult-type behaviors when she is only 13.

Just curious, what adult-type behaviors are we talking about here? Taking the bus alone, throwing back a fifth of scotch, dating?

I'm a big believer in you've got to give them room to make mistakes they can learn from, and letting them be accountable for their own choices.

Computer and things like private facebook pages do complicate things. I'm pretty sure that if I had non adult children I'd want to check in too... too many kids do have poor judgement/lack of understanding about things of a titillating nature , and our culture doesn't help it.

[Biciclista]

I must say I'm glad that internet access wasn't so easy when my sons were below 15 or 16 years old!
I caught my one son looking at a graphic photo of lesbian lovers on the internet. He fled the room and denied it. I thought it was very funny but let him know that I didn't appreciate him lying. (that was before all the viruses and junk you can get on unsavory sites now)

As for being a snoopy parent, what we mostly did was threaten, and we lucked out with pretty good kids. As they've grown up they've told us a thing or two that they did when we thought they were being perfect, but nothing like sending nude pictures of themselves to their friends on facebook!!!!!!!!

[Tuckervill]

No offense, Tuckervill, but it just ain't that simple. Teenage rebellion has nothing to do with going to kindergarten!! It has to do with the difficult transition from childhood to adulthood. The child invariably thinks they have completed the journey long before their impulse control, rational thinking, and good judgment have fully developed. As a parent, it is my RESPONSIBILITY to say "no" when my daughter wants to engage in adult-type behaviors when she is only 13. Kids really think they have it all figured out and cannot understand why they are not being treated like adults. I certainly recall how much smarter my own parents got once I really grew up - precisely because my judgment was impaired and I was just flat NOT as smart as I thought I was. You couldn't have convinced me at the time, but I needed my parents to clamp down a bit to keep me safe from myself! I resented the hell out of it, and that is teenage rebellion - and it is very natural.

No matter how good a kid is, they need guidance, rules and boundaries. You don't have to be a tyrant, but you can't really have a "mutual" relationship. Somebody has to be the parent. That is not master/subject - that is parent/child. It is not a bad thing.

I have 2 adult sons and one well on his way. My oldest child went all the way through school and is now a successful businessman with a family. My middle child went half way through school and is now a successful businessman. I was fortunate enough to have not scarred either one (much) by all the experimental parenting that we all endured during their childhoods. Once we settled on this paradigm, of mutual relationship devoid of school and and all it entails, we had more just downright happiness and joy on a day to day basis, while still living a successful life. Today is all we have, so joy for today is valuable to me.

I have a wonderful relationship with my oldest child--a mutual relationship based on human dignity and value, a friendship, with better benefits--we influence each other because we love each other. Those are the same principles that I have extended to my other children, regardless of their age. That's all.

I'll be the first to say that school is not the only problem with our society, and I can't really imagine our society without school. But many problems in our society can be traced to the too-early separation of children from their parents. That begins in kindergarten as a rule, and sometimes even earlier.

If you've never experienced any other way of life, you may not be able to imagine that teenage rebellion is not natural. Separation and independence ARE natural. Rebellion, no.

Karen

[Crankin]

My kids didn't rebel, either. They were very normal, in that they went to school, did activities, and actually managed to not drink or wreck any cars when they were in HS. I don't really know how we got so lucky. But we are friends as adults, and they both ask for advice. We don't see them as much, even the one who lives in the area, but that's OK. Our job was to launch them and we did it.
I don't think you have to have kids to know what's right. I worked with some very young, childless teachers who were so outstanding and had the "sixth sense" of what the kids needed. Both of my kids have this gene, even though they have are not teachers (still hoping the one in the military will go this way when he finishes).
I didn't stop doing any of the bad things I did when I was caught. But, I really was never caught doing anything too bad, compared to what was actually going on. I expected my kids to do the same, but I think they were a bit scared about what would happen if they drank and drove, took drugs, got someone pregnant, etc. My younger son was racing and no "bad stuff" would go into his body and the other one was busy with his music, writing, books, friends.
I think most parents are afraid of being honest with their kids, based on my experience as a teacher and as an observer of my peers.

[Flybye]

No offense, Tuckervill, but it just ain't that simple. Teenage rebellion has nothing to do with going to kindergarten!! It has to do with the difficult transition from childhood to adulthood. The child invariably thinks they have completed the journey long before their impulse control, rational thinking, and good judgment have fully developed. As a parent, it is my RESPONSIBILITY to say "no" when my daughter wants to engage in adult-type behaviors when she is only 13. Kids really think they have it all figured out and cannot understand why they are not being treated like adults. I certainly recall how much smarter my own parents got once I really grew up - precisely because my judgment was impaired and I was just flat NOT as smart as I thought I was. You couldn't have convinced me at the time, but I needed my parents to clamp down a bit to keep me safe from myself! I resented the hell out of it, and that is teenage rebellion - and it is very natural.

No matter how good a kid is, they need guidance, rules and boundaries. You don't have to be a tyrant, but you can't really have a "mutual" relationship. Somebody has to be the parent. That is not master/subject - that is parent/child. It is not a bad thing.

I applaud you for taking a stand about parenting not being a mutual relationship. I agree with you wholeheartedly from a number of perspectives. First of all, I think that authority does not mean tyranny - that one can be in charge without being the awful dictator.
Secondly, as a intern in the middle school this year I have repeatedly heard the kids who are in trouble say "I'd never tell my mom/dad/parents this but I wish that they would put their foot down on me/sit on me more/be more in charge/pay more attention to what I was texting-doing with friends after school-doing online. From a theoretical perspective (Adlerian) kids act out because they want attention - from who??? most often parents.
I find that it is interesting that we are all for not letting our dogs think that they have dominance in the pet-master relationship but we are entrusted with CHILDREN and let them believe that they are mutual decision makers and mutal in the parent CHILD relationship.
The well adjusted kids that come in for help have parents who are in authority and set boundaries.
That being said, there is another end of the spectrum - kids whose parents are not authorities, but authoritarian - making every decision for them and not allowing them any room to breathe and make decisions on their own - those kids rebel in the process of finding their own identity.
and
since this thread is actually about Facebook I will say that one of the most important things a parent can do in the process of guiding a child through life is to have access to passwords. Cyberbullying is becoming more of an issue - so is "sexting". Again, as an intern counselor in the schools, we are trained to ask for Facebook/My Space account information from our kids - we gain so much insight into their lives by the information they give on these accounts - things like early alcohol/ drug use, sexuality, depression, cutting, suicide, etc. Big things. Important things. And I have never had a kid say no when I have asked in a curious way. And I don't use what I learn against them - I use it as an opener into topics that are new and scary for them - as a parent WHAT A FANTASTIC OPPORTUNITY - DON'T MISS IT!
okay, I have shared my $.02