bike geometry

[alleyoop]

When I was looking to move up from my rigid bike to a FS, I tested an insane amount of bikes. There wasn't one 5inch travel bike that I felt comfortable on. It was exactly as Irulan described: I felt 'on top' of the bike, not 'in' it. I didn't feel like I had the power transfer that I was used to, and they were esspecially scary going down hills! I needed to be on a bike that was more like my rigid; aggressive geometry, leaning over more, lower center of gravity. If the bike you have fits you well then I would try out a couple 4inch travel bikes (classified as XC race) like the Spec Epic, Santa Cruz Blur XC (not LT), Trek Top-fuel, Yeti ASR-sl to see if they are more to your liking. I ended up with an Ibex Asta, which is pretty comperable geometry-wise to the Blur XC. BTW, I am 5'8" ride men's Medium and have proportions that just do not fit on women's bikes.

HTH!

Edited to add: Now that I read your last post...The butt-back, squeeze the thighs method is exactly what you should be doing with your new bike(to let the suspention do the work), except in the most extreme downhills. On the same terrain, I would think that you would be 'back' as much as your old bike. There shouldn't be THAT much of a change from a HT to a FS that would make you go over the bars or even feel like you will. If I was you, I might go to your LBS and try try try bikes. I would start with a medium Stumpy (mens), to see if you feel better and if that doesn't do it start trying the 4inch bikes. You will know it when you feel it.

[Irulan]

Let's talk technique a bit.

(lol I see the previous post contradicts just about everything I have written here, so try things and see what works for you)

On my hard tail I could get down the technical stuff by getting my butt back and squeezing my seat with my thighs for stability.

Sorry I missed this the first time around. Think about riding LOOSE, not holding the saddle with your thighs. All that accomplishes in the long run is bruises, and a false sense of security.

Think of is this way. If you hold the saddle with your thighs, you keep your balance point high, and this is why you probably feel like you are going to go over the bars - you butt/hips/center of gravity is literally weighted too high and forward. I know, I used to ride like this and had the bruises to show for it.

I have been professionally coached since 2003, and what follows is what they teach us. I also now coach in local clinics, and I happily pass it on.

This is part of the segment we call body english/neutral:

When you are off your saddle, you are balanced mostly on your feet, with your hands just a little bit. Your weight is on your feet, equally, feet at 3 & 9. Your shoulders are relaxed, eyes forward, no death grip. You want your legs loose and relaxed - lots of space showing between your knees and the frame, and you are NOT holding the saddle with your thighs, EVER. Think of your saddle as a balance point, not something to hold onto.

What happens when you focus on being balanced on four points (hands/feet) instead of one ( thighs clamped to saddle) your CG ( center of gravity) is lower, and it's not fixed; it can move around to accommodate changes of terrain. When your legs are loose, it also frees them up to steer with the knees, a critical part of cornering. Last but not least, when your legs are loose it allows the suspension to work fully.

Here's another way to think of it. Thighs holding saddle is a triangle pointing down, weight on top. Legs loose, weight on feet, triangle pointing up with weight on bottom. Which configuration will be more stable?

There are a lot of nifty drills and exercises that one can do to get comfortable with this, but I've already written a novel on this.

This will probably be way out of your comfort zone to do this, but I encourage to you try. It will make a world of difference in your riding for stability, control, being relaxed and trusting your bike to work for you. I used to ride like this - so I know. I've worked with gals who were so conditioned into holding onto their saddle with their thighs that we have pulled the saddle/seat post out of the frame to break them of that habit. Not on the trail of course, in the skills sessions. The look on their faces when they "get' what we are trying to teach is awesome.

anyway, something to think about. I would look at technique and suspension set up before I ever started messing with KOPS and set back seat posts. Set back seat posts shouldn't be a first consideration if your bike was fit properly.

Irulan

[Irulan]

oh, and make sure your suspension is set up correctly for your weight. If the dealer won't do it, you can find the manuals for your shocks, both front and rear, online. My specialized came with dvds and manuals for setting up the shocks.

[Becky]

I don't have much to add- what's been written already is great stuff- except this:

When I switched from a HT to a FS, it took me a long time to get used to the action of the rear suspension. Because of this, I ran the rear shock too firm, and then wondered why I felt high and "bucky" on the bike. I swear, I thought that thing was going to launch me into the nearest tree! I revisited my shock set-up, and lowered the air pressure to something more suited for my weight, which in turn allowed me to better fine-tune the rebound. All of this added up to a more "in the bike" position, a suspension that properly unloads without packing down, and more confidence. Something to try....

//is off to remove seatpost from frame like Irulan suggested...and break that bad thigh habit!

[alleyoop]

Well, gosh. I was taught to hold the seat with thighs if you have a FS. What you say makes sense, but now it is going to be icky to re-learn.

[Becky]

Well, gosh. I was taught to hold the seat with thighs if you have a FS. What you say makes sense, but now it is going to be icky to re-learn.

Seriously! I hope that DH doesn't have the camera handy.....

By the way, does anyone have pics of what you're supposed to look like when you're off the saddle? I learn well by seeing things...both demonstrations and photos. TIA!

[Irulan]

Hey you gotta do what works for you.

Here's some assorted photos, all from my personal mtb pages

http://www.specialtyoutdoors.com/pen...ing/biking.asp and
http://www.specialtyoutdoors.com/pen...g/ridetips.asp

This is from a NORBA nationals down hill race, crazy stuff,



Here's me on my new Specialized,



Notice the wide knees, not tucked up to the saddle. The bike moves freely.

my good friend using the attack/neutral in our rock playground




one of my favorite quotes,

"the saddle is not a butt rest"

Also,
I've been taught a pretty tall stance, what I call "Canadian style" since we learned it from Cindy Devine, Canadian world champ and mtb hall of famer.
Not everyone agrees with the taller stance but hey, those Canadians can ride like nobody's business - I swear the girls have balls. The key is to stay loose, don't lock your joints, and work in concert with the suspension on your bike.

have fun.

[pinkbikes]

oh, and make sure your suspension is set up correctly for your weight. If the dealer won't do it, you can find the manuals for your shocks, both front and rear, online. My specialized came with dvds and manuals for setting up the shocks.

And the Specialized website has really good videos that show you how, as well as pdfs of all the manuals and the tables for all the adjustments. All you need is a shock pump.

[gnarwhal]

Yeah i can back up the moving your butt back with loose legs thing too. I learnt this the hard way after nearly endoing a couple of weeks back cos i'd clamped the saddle tight with my thighs and had locked out my arms...well you can guess what happened!

So next time i rode and did the same section i still came off but this time i was so far back on the bike that i landed my butt on the wheel and my chest on the saddle. If you think about your body, you're like a big spring. It doesn't matter if you're on a full susser, a hardy or a roady your knees and arms bend much much more than any bike travel. Stay loose, stay low and stay back on the downs. It's easy to tense up when things get a bit hairy but the trick is learning not to...i'm still working on this myself!