One Reason Cyclists Are Disliked

[OakLeaf]

Do I stop? Yes. Foot down? No. My thinking is this -- you never know who might be looking out a nearby window, etc.

Meh.

Personally I can't do a track stand and I have the utmost admiration for people who can, especially without a fixie.

But. If you're not talking about track stands, a momentary pause without loss of forward momentum isn't a "stop." It's a "rolling stop." And, I don't think that a track stand is any safer than a rolling stop. (Maybe even a little less safe, since I think it's pretty difficult to trackstand with one foot unclipped? But since I can't do one at all, I wouldn't know. )

Plus, 99% of onlookers, whether they be impressionable kids or traffic cops behind the billboard, will not recognize a track stand as such, but will think that you did a rolling stop. So if your main concern is with who's looking and not with your own safety, put your foot down. (On the moto, I usually drag a toe through a rolling stop in case that cop's watching. On the bici, not so easily done.)

[wackyjacky1]

Tricky subject. I will confess to rolling through stop signs quite frequently, but only after I've slowed down and determined that I have a clear line of sight and there are no cars coming. If I see a car, even if it's pretty far away, I will stop. If I can't see down the road in both directions, I will stop. I don't run red lights.

[OakLeaf]

I have to ask - those of you who categorically state you will not go through a red light - what do you do when the light won't change and there's no pedestrian button?


I don't think anyone here is advocating BLOWING a stoplight or stop sign. We've all seen people do it and most of us have done it at one time or another, but it's pretty much impossible to justify.

In this thread, we're talking about rolling stops with zero forward velocity, and/or going through a red light after a complete foot-down stop. Either of those is completely different from just ignoring the traffic signal.

[salsabike]

I have to ask - those of you who categorically state you will not go through a red light - what do you do when the light won't change and there's no pedestrian button?


I don't think anyone here is advocating BLOWING a stoplight or stop sign. We've all seen people do it and most of us have done it at one time or another, but it's pretty much impossible to justify.

In this thread, we're talking about rolling stops with zero forward velocity, and/or going through a red light after a complete foot-down stop. Either of those is completely different from just ignoring the traffic signal.

Actually, the OP and the first few posts after that were all about blowing stop signs and red lights. That's what I thought we were talking about. Here, I've been told by cops---although I bet they don't all see it the same way--that they don't insist on anyone putting a foot down as long as we slow down enough to make it clear we intend to give right of way to whichever car or bike or pedestrian is supposed to have it. It's the four-way stop thing---do we act predictably there? We slow down enough to give others the right of way, in such a way that they can tell we intend to do that. I think that's what people get concerned about, not whether there's a rolling stop with no momentum vs. a foot down.

And if there are no cars in sight, we will do a rolling stop and keep going.

[wackyjacky1]

I have to ask - those of you who categorically state you will not go through a red light - what do you do when the light won't change and there's no pedestrian button?

I guess I'm fortunate in that I've never had to deal with that situation. But I think if I were stuck at an unchanging red light, I would make sure there's no traffic coming, and then proceed.

[Thorn]

I have to ask - those of you who categorically state you will not go through a red light - what do you do when the light won't change and there's no pedestrian button?

I legally (in Wisconsin) proceed after counting to 45 yielding to traffic in the intersection

I don't think anyone here is advocating BLOWING a stoplight or stop sign. We've all seen people do it and most of us have done it at one time or another, but it's pretty much impossible to justify.

In this thread, we're talking about rolling stops with zero forward velocity, and/or going through a red light after a complete foot-down stop. Either of those is completely different from just ignoring the traffic signal.

Yep...interesting the thread started with blantant disregard of traffic signals, but has turned into an argument of rolling. These are the same arguments for/against the Idaho stop -- rolling stop signs and stop and proceed at red lights.

People get all charged up because they don't differentiate between the blantant disregard of signals (we can probably all agree is wrong) and the respect of a slow roll through a stop that yields to traffic that has the ROW (something that most of us do whether we admit it or not).

[Crankin]

Oakleaf, I was faced with blatant disregard of red lights on my old commute. It was 6:15 AM, so not a lot of traffic. The first situation required stopping at a residential street that crosses a busy state highway. There is also a left turn arrow, for traffic on the highway. There's a detector thing, but it doesn't get triggered by my bike. I would wait for another car to come, but the first time, I didn't make it across the highway before the light turned yellow. So, from then on, I started across when I saw the traffic on the highway get the yellow and I clearly saw no cars coming. The second one is a T intersection that's on a little uphill, where I had to turn left. I have trouble navigating these for whatever reasons. Again, my bike doesn't trigger the sensor, but there was more traffic here. If no cars were coming, I went through the red. Sometimes my boss would pass me on her way to work, but thankfully, she never saw this...
I would never blatantly blow a light or stop sign. I have seen this plenty of times. Once my dh did it and I told him I would never ride with him again! It worked.

[Aint Doody]

Going back to my OP--If you were right behind me along with 2 others in single file, would you pass me ON THE RIGHT after I have signaled a stop and yelled, "Stopping"? Remember--there was a truck approaching from the left. Her husband told me this morning that she told him I was mad at her. Maybe I am, but it's because she potentially gave the entire group a black eye. More like I'm annoyed with her decision.

[katluvr]

Going back to my OP--If you were right behind me along with 2 others in single file, would you pass me ON THE RIGHT after I have signaled a stop and yelled, "Stopping"? Remember--there was a truck approaching from the left. Her husband told me this morning that she told him I was mad at her. Maybe I am, but it's because she potentially gave the entire group a black eye. More like I'm annoyed with her decision.

You are right...you were in front and communicated the stopping.
I agree w/ almost everything said in this thread. I avoid a lot of groups d/t the blowing thru. I also think there is a diff between ignoring lights/stop signs and the slowing down or "rolling stop".
I gues this is how I handle it:
Stop signs = rolling stop at times.
Traffic lights = stopping but w/some exceptions...early morning when the light DOES not or WILL not change and I can truly assess the situation. We have a small downtime w/ lots of one way streets...fairly easy to assess.
Does this equal "obeying" traffic laws? Proably not, no more than pedestrians that WALK with the Do Not Walk sign flashing or don't cross at corners/intersctions/cross walks.

But I do try and do think I am safe. Safer than most.

[smilingcat]

In some jurisdiction, a definition for a complete stop for a bicycle is foot down on the pavement. Track stand, no matter how long, is not considered to have come to a complete stop.

A guy in SD got a ticket for just that reason. Track stand, foot never touched the ground and got a ticket. Took it to court, and brought a track rider with a bicycle for a demo. The guy who got the ticket was so so on track stand but the track rider could stay put for h---o---u--rs. While the said guy was arguing for a dismissal, the track rider was track standing the whole time in front of a judge. Ticket was dismissed. The intent of the law was come to a complete stop and the judge clearly saw that the intent of the law was fulfilled.

A good day.

I don't take a chance. I put my foot down. There is a judge around where I live who HATES cyclists, his prejudice will not allow him to be impartial and no matter how I argue, I'll end up in the pokey. It just isn't worth it.

Slightly on a different note, Years ago when I was tad bit faster, I regularly had my "picture" taken by radar gun . Wasn't quite fast enough to earn a speeding ticket. Now that would be one ticket I would have been proud!