One Reason Cyclists Are Disliked

[fidlfreek]

Ok. Everyone has made good points here but I am going to play devil's advocate.

I think you must treat a stop sign differently as a cyclist. In a car it is ALWAYS safer to stop. On a bike however I believe that your safety is always #1 and that means that you must analyze the situation and carefully consider whether or not to stop. If I am at a place where cross traffic doesn't stop I am more likely to slow and analyze the situation. If there is ample room I will roll right through. Otherwise I'm stuck starting, clipping in, with a small chance of having a catastrophically slower than usual crossing. I am causing LESS risk to myself and other drivers by being in full control and slowing and analyzing and then possibly going through. This IMHO is defensive driving which is what excellent cyclists must do.

[smilingcat]

I watched:

1. redondo beach police issue tickets to four guys who ran a stop sign.
2. Palos Verdes Police issue tickets to two guys who ran a stop sign.
3. Palos Verdes Police warning a guy for running a stop sign.
4. Torrance Police lay in wait for cylists to run a stop sign.

Here in California, it goes on your drivers license and I think the fine is around $180.00 I've got better things to spend my money.

I've also been thanked by police for coming to a complete stop at a stop sign. That 2 seconds I "waste" by stopping at a stop sign is far better than becoming a bug splat on the road.

Is it really worth taking a risk to save 2 seconds??

I have yet to ride with a squad who abide by the law.

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to Aint Doody,

You were in the lead and called out "stopping". Your friend following is totally in the wrong by calling out "going" ("rolling"). It doesn't matter if there was a stop sign or not. If a lead calls out "stopping", there probably is a very good reason for stopping.

[salsabike]

The safest possible thing an excellent cyclist can do is to be predictable to everyone else on the road. That means: stop at the stop signs.

[Trigress]

I recognise this from my group rides. We have a guy in our group who just will not be considerate or responsible. Every time we get to a junction or a roundabout most of us will wait if there are cars having the right of way, and then the peloton stops. However, he will then overtake us all, barge right into the roundabout or the junction, so that all the cars stop - mostly when we're riding as a team, the cars will be very cautious. I used to think this was because they want to be considerate, but having seen this guy I'm beginning to think that it's more due to their having seen this type of erratic behaviour... And the result of course is that as all the cars stop, we all feel that we should appreciate their stopping, but you all know how much time it takes to start a peloton, when all have to get back in balance, sort out pedals and so on...

[MyLitespeed]

Even when I ride by myself, if I see a motorist approaching a stop sign, I make sure that they see me stop, even if no one else is around. I want to make a positive impression on cars and not have them think that all cyclists don't obey the rules.

If there are no cars around, I will usually slow WAY down and then proceed through the intersection (only stop signs). I always stop at stop lights.

I have one friend I ride with who can be VERY unsafe when it comes to riding. I just don't want to be around when she eventually does get hurt. She doesn't like to be told what to do, so I just keep my mouth shut. Some people have to learn the hard way.

If there is a rider in front of me, signaling or telling me they are going to stop, I STOP. I figure they can see what's in front and have a darn good reason for stopping. I get to many close calls without disobeying the rules.

[Mr. Bloom]

Fidlfreek+1

I can think of several scenarios where a rolling stop is best... But, there are many more where a hard stop is a requirement.

My frustration comes at a four way stop, where I've stopped and the car waves me through. I expect to follow the rules and this totally breaks my rhythm

[Crankin]

OK. Mr. S. I agree with your assessment of the 4 way stop... the same thing happens here with cars! No one seems to understand the person who arrives first goes first. It worked like clockwork in AZ, but I guess drivers in MA are so indecisive, they can't handle it. We actually have cars stop dead in the middle of main streets to let approaching cars from the side street turn onto the main street. They don't get you never just stop dead in the middle of the road that has the right of way.
I do come to rolling stops on country roads with few cars. I always unclip and could stop fully. Mostly I do. I ride a lot around areas with tourists (downtown Concord), kids, etc. I get in the lane and act as predictable as I can.
TC Trek, my husband has run into a similar situation as you describe. Every Friday there is a group of riders who assemble to ride at about 6:15 AM, in the lot by Walden Pond. They are obviously serious racers who are training. If my husband is driving, he has to blow his horn every time, as they absolutely will not get into a single file line to let a car pass. They give him the finger, etc. Now, this is on a narrow, heavily travelled road that is in terrible condition (pot holes). If it is a day my husband is riding, he usually goes by their route a bit after they have come through. He notices a distinct change in the behaviors of the drivers because they are pissed at group, see another cyclist and take it out on him.
This is all so upsetting. Police here are beginning to ticket, also. Last Wednesday, my dh got in an argument with a guy on our ride who was bragging about being ticketed in the neighboring town. He felt he should NEVER have to yield to cars, just because he has the right to be on the road. When I asked him about common courtesy, he sneered.

[Becky]

Fidlfreek+1

I can think of several scenarios where a rolling stop is best... But, there are many more where a hard stop is a requirement.

My frustration comes at a four way stop, where I've stopped and the car waves me through. I expect to follow the rules and this totally breaks my rhythm

Agreed re: the rhythm thing. I have the same issue with being waved across by a driver when I'm signalling to make a left hand turn. If I was a car, you wouldn't stop to let me across. Waving, though done in good faith, is just plain confusing for both parties.

[Crankin]

Exactly. This is what drivers here do to cyclists and cars. They think they are being nice, but what they are doing is actually wrong and confuses people.

[Pink Diva]

I live in a county that has two major cities in its borders. One city has so many stop signs, if you live there you know how to handle intersections like that. This same city has golf cart paths going EVERYWHERE...the people living here are used to seeing joggers, cyclists, golf carts, and walkers so they know to watch for something other then cars. The other city has people that blow through stop signs, red lights, and those areas in parking lots where you know you should stop to see if a car's coming (I've almost gotten T-Boned in my car hundreds of times from people just breezing through w/o looking). If you ride a bike here, you're going to get shoved to the side...not a very bike-friendly city, but there is a very limited amount of sidewalks or areas that even have a wide enough road to cycle with the cars without them having any choice but to get too close to you. Can you tell where I ride ?

Anyhow, after years of driving in the one city with scary drivers, I've been taught to stop or do a rolling stop at every single intersection while I'm cycling to save myself from a dangerous situation since my favorite ride goes through both city's back roads. I would NEVER blow through an intersection regardless of where I'm at since I seem to have the luck that if there's a car anywhere in the area that I'm cycling even if they are miles away, they will be meeting me at that intersection without a doubt!

LOVE the story about the entire team getting a ticket! Bwa ha ha!!!

[OakLeaf]

My frustration comes at a four way stop, where I've stopped and the car waves me through. I expect to follow the rules and this totally breaks my rhythm

I hate to do it, but when a car with the ROW tries to wave me through, I will put my foot down and remain stopped until the car goes through, no matter how long it takes. If their window's down I may even say "You have the ROW."

To me, it's just like passing on the right when I'm in my car. I don't really expect left-lane bandits to learn any good habits from my refusing to pass them on the right, but playing along with their bad habits will DEFINITELY reinforce them.

These people don't understand how dangerous their behavior is to us (and to a lesser extent, puts themselves in danger of being rear-ended). If we refuse to play along with it, MAYBE they'll think a little harder.

[OakLeaf]

I think you must treat a stop sign differently as a cyclist. In a car it is ALWAYS safer to stop. On a bike however I believe that your safety is always #1 and that means that you must analyze the situation and carefully consider whether or not to stop. If I am at a place where cross traffic doesn't stop I am more likely to slow and analyze the situation. If there is ample room I will roll right through. Otherwise I'm stuck starting, clipping in, with a small chance of having a catastrophically slower than usual crossing. I am causing LESS risk to myself and other drivers by being in full control and slowing and analyzing and then possibly going through. This IMHO is defensive driving which is what excellent cyclists must do.

+1. I always make sure that (1) I'm ABLE to put my foot down quickly when cross traffic has the ROW, and (2) I'm proceeding slowly enough and with enough visibility that I'll know WHEN and IF I may need to come to a complete standing stop.

But I agree 100% that a complete standing stop is not always the safest thing for a two-wheeled vehicle (motorized or non), even though it may be the legally required thing. Every intersection and every set of traffic conditions has to be analyzed individually; blindly stopping at every stop sign is not automatically safer, any more than blindly blowing every stop sign. IMHO.

[Aiacha]

I was actually shocked by this on one charity ride. We had come up on a light at a potentially busy intersection, near the end of the ride. There were probably 5 ot 6 of us stopped and waiting for the green light, when two others just zoomed right by us and went through the red light. (I say zoomed because we were standing still; we caught up to them quickly and, if I remember right, my friend gave them an ear-full) Up to that point I had never seen someone just out and out run a red light unescorted.

I'm guilty of taking rolling stops through rural stop signs, but not before I look and check to see that I'm not about to get squished like a bug. I would never dream of running a red light.

[OakLeaf]

I would never dream of running a red light.

Do you have a steel frame? Where you ride, are the lights triggered by optical sensors, or the older magnetic induction loops? On a bicycle, particularly a non-steel frame (and even some motorcycles) you may not be able to trigger a light. In busier areas there may be a pedestrian crosswalk button that you can dismount and push. That carries its own set of risks - but at a lot of intersections, there's no button.

Most of the places I ride, the induction loops are slowly being phased out, and I am SO loving the optical sensors! But at many intersections, a cyclist may have no choice but to either run the light, or to do a right turn on red and then a U-turn which may be quite a bit more dangerous.

[Eden]

You want to have the roads open get yourself a racing license and stay between the cars.... but seriously, I don't blow stop signs or red lights. Not only does it give drivers a really bad impression (though undeserved.... many, many more cars roll stop signs than bikes.... people just don't take notice of it), it can be downright dangerous.

When we ride as a team we will at times slowly roll a stop sign - if we all stopped as individuals we'd be forever getting through.... and cars would be even less appreciative of all the time it takes than if we go through as a group, but not blow through, that's just plain dangerous and we'd never, ever roll a red light.

As far as people waving me on.... I tend to pretend I don't see them... It's dangerous - they only think of their own little world - look how nice I'm being- and forget about traffic coming in the other direction or coming around them from behind (lots of people, especially when its a 4 lane street will blow right by a stopped car without ever looking - its a real danger for pedestrians and bikes if you take that offer). I don't know how many times I'd have been hit if I'd taken someone's friendly wave.... They are putting themselves at risk of being rear ended too.