Fabris softener!

[Karma007]

I was vegetarian in midlle school and high school, until I got a job in a delicatessen.. As to to question of where one draws the line, I read Fast Food Nation a few years ago and developed an interest in where my food was coming from, and the less than honerable dealings of processed food manufacturing. I went vegetarian as more of an experiment more than anything else. I decided to try it for a day and it not only stuck, it evolved. Everyone has their limits, and their reasons for doing what they do. I don't preach, but I do encourage (here, try these most awesome cupcakes...) people to be aware of their food, whatever they chose to eat. The idea of hormones and antibiotics in my food is just as nasty to me as persticides on my apples.
That said, I am going to back out of this conversation (if I can keep my damn mouth shut) b/c discussions on food, poilitcs, religion and who is most evil on Survivor never end well.

[indigoiis]

That was a great movie.

I guess I ask the line question because, as a former vegetarian and mother of a (getting stricter by the day) lifetime vegetarian teen, I get frustrated when I am told, "you can't buy that yogurt [jam/cheese/cracker] because it has rennit [geletan/animal spit/ground up fingernails] (sp?) in it" or when I get the face after I have prepared a healthy vegetarian dinner and she asks me, "what did you put in it?" She aches to travel and I told her that while I am a slave to her particular food needs, when she travels, particularly in Asia, she will not be able to question the food preparers. That in fact it sometimes is rude in certain countries to do so.

My DH (her stepfather) likes to joke about eating cardboard and rocks. It's good to have a little humor thrown in... but yeah, definitely frustrating when our local grocery store (not a Whole Foods by any means) does not have the big-city selection that would enable me to $$$shop$$$ for these vegetarian-approved alternatives. And when she puts her nose up at plain steamed veggies and rice, I get a little dubious as to the benefits of being so strict.

[gnarwhal]

I admire your teenage daughter for being so strict, bravo to her! And to you for helping her manage this! *applause*

I moved from vegetarian to vegan as i could no longer stomach the welfarist approach being commonly bandied about in the UK...the "it doesn't matter if they die so that we can eat them, so long as they have a nice life" approach. Now i favour a more abolitionist take which has me thinking that actually who are we to impose our will on any sentient beings? What gives us the right to take a life or exploit those who for some reason people see as lesser creatures.

And on the whole do vegetables feel pain thing - when you brand a cow it hurts it, it makes a noise and registers pain. When you brand an aubergine it sizzles and goes nicely with hoummus!

[Karma007]

I admire your teenage daughter for being so strict, bravo to her! And to you for helping her manage this! *applause*

I moved from vegetarian to vegan as i could no longer stomach the welfarist approach being commonly bandied about in the UK...the "it doesn't matter if they die so that we can eat them, so long as they have a nice life" approach. Now i favour a more abolitionist take which has me thinking that actually who are we to impose our will on any sentient beings? What gives us the right to take a life or exploit those who for some reason people see as lesser creatures.

And on the whole do vegetables feel pain thing - when you brand a cow it hurts it, it makes a noise and registers pain. When you brand an aubergine it sizzles and goes nicely with hoummus!

That's funny! I can hear the sizzle of grilled vegys now!

[Karma007]

Indido, does your daughter help with the cooking and shopping (I know, not cool...but vegan cooking can be awesome, especially with the right cookbooks. Have I mentioned the cupcakes?). I would tell her that, while she's welcome to eat what she wants, if she wants more than rice and vegys, she better learn to cook, and how to seek out the good stuff, even in a less than stellar grocery. There is also a list on the web somewhere of "accidentaly vegan" foods for her to check out, should she miss some of her junk food faves (Oreos!)

There are a lot of myths concerning meat and dairy free diets ("the'yre all skinny and malnourished...you can't be a serious athlete on a vegan diet...you won't get enough protien"...) and if she is choosing this route, especially as a growing teen, she'll need to have a firm understanding of what her nutritional requirements are.

Also, if's she a web surfer, have her check out the Post Punk Vegan Kitchen (theppk.com). It's full of like minded individuals, and if she loves food, she's welcome there, regardless of where her politics stand.

Feel free to email me if you would like more info

Here's me...shutting up again...

[deeaimond]

Indigo,

I agree with shootingstar, that if your daughter chooses to be a strict vegan, you should not have to be the one cracking your head over what she can or cannot eat all the time. Since she is old enough to make the food choices that enable her to be a vegan, she should also be able to take enough care to make sure she is eating healthily. Learning to cook for herself will mean that she gets to experience how complicated food prep can be and so she will learn to not complain. It also means there are more things for her to eat, and who knows, some of them might be good enough to tempt the rest of the family as well. (Then occasionally she can take over the cooking duties leaving you free to go for as nice long ride)

In my home my parents have always worked full time so cooking duties always fell to me. I cook well, but occasionally there are some slip-ups. Or sometimes, especially these days when i come back from work exhausted (with more work waiting to be done) and dad and bro are just waiting for a meal. I'm happy to cook more (I have to eat too)

But I understand the frustrations of having to prepare food around the various likes and dislikes of a whole family of people. Having one vegan makes it even more tough I imagine. Fortunately for me, no one dares complain (because then I will just cook for myself for a week and all they can have is the smell of good food.)

Oh and another good jelly substitute for gelatin is konnyaku (a kind of japanese yam) It makes excellent jello and is full of fibre.

As for the original topic of fabric softener, I don't use any either, because its hard to know what kind of chemicals are in it and i have unidentified allergies to chemicals.

[shootingstar]

That was a great movie.

I guess I ask the line question because, as a former vegetarian and mother of a (getting stricter by the day) lifetime vegetarian teen, I get frustrated when I am told, "you can't buy that yogurt [jam/cheese/cracker] because it has rennit [geletan/animal spit/ground up fingernails] (sp?) in it" or when I get the face after I have prepared a healthy vegetarian dinner and she asks me, "what did you put in it?" She aches to travel and I told her that while I am a slave to her particular food needs, when she travels, particularly in Asia, she will not be able to question the food preparers. That in fact it sometimes is rude in certain countries to do so.

My DH (her stepfather) likes to joke about eating cardboard and rocks. It's good to have a little humor thrown in... but yeah, definitely frustrating when our local grocery store (not a Whole Foods by any means) does not have the big-city selection that would enable me to $$$shop$$$ for these vegetarian-approved alternatives. And when she puts her nose up at plain steamed veggies and rice, I get a little dubious as to the benefits of being so strict.

Don't know how old your daughter is..but soon it might help she prepares some of the food herself. Just to understand what it is required to be vegan in meal planning and recipes.

It won't be Asia she might have problems for vegan options, it might be some parts of South America. We recently heard some real stories of serious meat eating cultures there from touring cyclists. Especially outside of big cities.

[Irulan]

Don't know how old your daughter is..but soon it might help she prepares some of the food herself. Just to understand what it is required to be vegan in meal planning and recipes.

I third this. She's got no business complaining about which yogurt you buy etc if shes a) not doing the shopping, b) not paying for it and c) not doing the food prep. It's easy to have a special diet when someone else is doing all the work.

While my kids never did vegan or other non-mainstream food paths, I did have a very picky eater. He learned at a very young age that I wasn't a short order cook or a waitress, and that he could come and help shop if he didn't like what I got. ( we are talking when he was 10 or so) Even at that young age, he knew how to fix things for himself if he didn't like what was on the menu.

[indigoiis]

Thanks you all.
We were getting tired of the rocks.