New bike affordability

[ilima]

As far as titanium goes, it is an awesome material. I sold an aluminum bike to help defray the costs of my Merlin. That being said, I did have a mental block about paying more than about $3K.

One nice thing about Ti for someone looking to buy is that resale prices are low.

Backcountry outlet also has some Merlin models it's getting rid of. The prices are good but not great considering they are being sold on an outlet site.

[lunacycles]

Before anything I say, it should be clear that I am biased due to the nature of my business. But my intent in posting isn't to gain business, but to offer some wisdom gleaned from making custom steel bikes these last 14 years.

When i first started doing this (framebuilding), I really wanted to get into titanium as a material for framebuilding. As I researched more and more it became clear, that on the custom end of things, there isn't much to be gained from building with titanium. It is much more expensive on the cost-end for a small-volume builder, there isn't a great offering of tubing for the custom builder, more tooling is required, as well as being subject to hazards I am not willing to be subject to (e.g., obsessively cleaning tubes with acetone before they are welded).

Also, again on the custom side, I found that I can create steel frames that match the weight and ride quality of titanium. Steel tubing is available in so many more tubing thicknesses and configurations than titanium, and for the small/light rider (for whom I build most bikes), that is important.

A Trek 830 is steel, but it is the kind of steel that does not suit a lighter rider well, because it is heavy and thick walled. This means, if you are not big and heavy enough, it will feel fairly dead and not offer a particularly plush ride. A custom builder can custom "tune" a steel tubeset to fit the rider's size, weight, and intended usage. I built an all-steel frame last summer that weighed 2.6 lbs (most titanium frames come in around the 3lb mark). This shocked me, but made me realize the incredible versatility and benefits of steel. Stock steel frames and bicycles, regardless of the manufacturer, will be more "burly" (i.e., heavier and stiffer) than anything custom, for cost and liability reasons.

Stock titanium frames/bikes can work very well for the small and light rider (assuming they fit well), and even overbuilt ones will probably ride quite nicely for the smaller rider, due to the material properties of titanium. It is a less "dense" material than titanium and more "flexy"--often a good thing if you are relatively light. However, as has been noted, even stock titanium frames/bikes exceed the price of identical and often better fitting custom steel bikes.

Finally, aluminum is usually a poor choice for smaller/lighter riders, especially stock aluminum (and there are very few custom builders who work with aluminum, but that is another topic). The reason it is not great is it tends to be very oversized in diameter, and the triangles on a small frame become very small, enhancing the rigidity of the frame and tubeset. This makes the bike, particularly in small frame sizes, usually exceedlingly "stiff" and a harsh ride. The reason aluminum is so popular for stock bicycles has to do with economics much more than it being the ideal or proper material for all bikes.

[Zen]

The only wisdom I can impart on this subject is in the form of an anecdote.

There is a hill in town that I have climbed on two different bikes.

The first bike was aluminum.
It's a low end model but I bought it new and the total price was about $430.

The second bike is a steel bike that I rebuilt.
The total cost for that bike was probably about the same.

When I got to the top of the hill on the stock aluminum, I was catching my breath.

When I got to the top of the same hill riding the steel bike I could only think of this

I should add that this frame was custom (though not for me) from a Canadian builder so it's probably somewhat high-end.

[Ana]

When I got to the top of the hill on the stock aluminum, I was catching my breath.

When I got to the top of the same hill riding the steel bike I could only think of this

That is exactly how I feel when I climb hills on my aluminum frame! I thought it was me (I'm sure it is at least partly! ) but I'm very eager to test ride some steel frames now You may end up converting me I want to discover why steel is called the "plush" ride

A Trek 830 is steel, but it is the kind of steel that does not suit a lighter rider well, because it is heavy and thick walled. This means, if you are not big and heavy enough, it will feel fairly dead and not offer a particularly plush ride. A custom builder can custom "tune" a steel tubeset to fit the rider's size, weight, and intended usage. I built an all-steel frame last summer that weighed 2.6 lbs (most titanium frames come in around the 3lb mark). This shocked me, but made me realize the incredible versatility and benefits of steel. Stock steel frames and bicycles, regardless of the manufacturer, will be more "burly" (i.e., heavier and stiffer) than anything custom, for cost and liability reasons.

I had no idea the tubing on my Trek 830 is too thick to be a plush ride I can't even imagine how different a steel frame for a road bike would be

But if I find one and fall in love with it then I will have to get it....

[fidlfreek]

Ok so Luna just pretty much put her finger on it.

I'm just warning you Ana:
the moment you get on a spendy bike you'll decide that you need it. I am speaking from personal experience here!!!!!

Bikes are kinda like money, you always just need a LITTLE bit more. This is a slippery slope so figure out your budget before you get on that for that first test ride.

Remember, "plush" is a function of design as well as material. I ride a high end carbon fiber bike that has a geometry thats been tweaked to make it into a comfy ride. Don't get tricked into thinking material is everything...

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

The person who buys a bike with a frame that fits them poorly is wasting far more money than the person who buys a more expensive bike that fits them well. And the person who finds a bike that fits both their body and their budget is pretty lucky!

Keep in mind that you can swap everything on a bike for higher end/more expensive components as you go along...but you can't change the basic size, angles, and proportions of the frame. You can tweak things like handlebars and stems and saddles to make any frame feel better...but if the frame is a poor geometry/size fit to begin with, you may or may not be successful in making it comfortable to ride.
Basic frame fit is very important. If it feels good, it is good.

[Ana]

I'm just warning you Ana:
the moment you get on a spendy bike you'll decide that you need it. I am speaking from personal experience here!!!!!

Yeah, I am aware of the risks For now, they are supposed to be informative test rides that should take a while Just to see what's out there...which reminds me of the time when we got our first pet as a family. We went to "look" at a cat and then a dog. My parents knew that we weren't just going to look

I almost feel like it's bike dating

The person who buys a bike with a frame that fits them poorly is wasting far more money than the person who buys a more expensive bike that fits them well. And the person who finds a bike that fits both their body and their budget is pretty lucky!

Basic frame fit is very important. If it feels good, it is good.

Thanks for enabling me I think this forum feeds my bike lust more than anything