Trainer Question

[Aggie_Ama]

Yes I know this has been discussed to death but I am having trouble searching since the word trainer is common, maybe I am just search challenged.

Is the Cyclops Magneto decent? We don't need a winter trainer, our winters are fairly mild. We want one for pre-race warm up for DH, LIGHT (1x week) weeknight use by me when the time change in place and if Texas were ever blessed with rain for more than 5 minutes maybe a rainy day. But biggest thing would be pre-race that is why I thought Magnetic would be fine. Can they hold mountain bikes? I know noise is an issue but with the little use I think we could handle that. We got a pretty sizable dividend this year from REI, with coupon it almost covers the Magneto.

[Blueberry]

I think it would be fine - I've had one for years. Yes, it's loud. And maybe it's not the most realistic feel - but it works. I do spinervals with mine. A mountain bike will fit - but you'll probably want an extra wheel with a slick tire.

CA

[woohoo]

I have a cycleops fluid 2 and it's brilliant, am really happy with it, so think the magneto should be pretty good too. If it's only occasional use and you want to use mountain bikes all the time though I'd maybe look into rim-mounted trainers as a potential way to cut down the noise without changing wheels out...

Lynne.

[wildeny]

I just bought CycleOps Fluid2. Tried it yesterday with my road bike. Jeez, even with the air-conditioner on, I was sweating buckets just after 10 min. And 15 min later, I took off my shirt.

OK, my question is: why my heart rate was lower than the ones when riding outdoors? I felt my feet were so tired that I stopped after 10 km. Am I so weak?

Ave HR: 118 (vs 14x outdoors)
Max HR: 155 (vs 175+ outdoors -- when climbing)
Calories burnt: 153 kcal (just about a coke's ? )
Ave Speed: 20.36 km/hr
Max Speed: 38.48 km/hr
Ave Cadence: 76

I used 34/14 mostly, as well as the nearby gear ratios.

[ASammy1]

Hey Amanda! I have the Mag + and yes it's loud, but it does the job. I just turn up the TV or my Ipod when using it. It sounds like it will be just fine for the uses you described in your OP.

[SheFly]

I just bought CycleOps Fluid2. Tried it yesterday with my road bike. Jeez, even with the air-conditioner on, I was sweating buckets just after 10 min. And 15 min later, I took off my shirt.

OK, my question is: why my heart rate was lower than the ones when riding outdoors? I felt my feet were so tired that I stopped after 10 km. Am I so weak?

Ave HR: 118 (vs 14x outdoors)
Max HR: 155 (vs 175+ outdoors -- when climbing)
Calories burnt: 153 kcal (just about a coke's ? )
Ave Speed: 20.36 km/hr
Max Speed: 38.48 km/hr
Ave Cadence: 76

I used 34/14 mostly, as well as the nearby gear ratios.

Not sure of the science, but this is a function of riding the trainer. My HR will NOT go to where it needs to be when I am riding the trainer, and nowhere near as high as when I am riding outside. My trainer measures power, so I go by that instead when I am working out indoors.

SheFly

[smilingcat]

totally un-scientific on my part.

Have a 10+ year old blackburn mag trainer. collected dust for about 8 years. So still in good shape. Since I've been back on my bike for the last year and sporadic two years ago, it still does the job, TO WEAR ME OUT.

I can set the thing to different level of resistance and I can also shift around in my gears. In other words, I have lot of freedom on how hard my workout is going to be. It doesn't matter which gear you are in. It's how much power you are generating at the cadence you are spinning. I can make it like I'm climbing a 20% grade by setting the mag unit to max and "riding" at 52x11 gearing. or be lazy and set the mag unit to zero resistance and spin at 39x23 gearing.

So if you are getting crushed by the trainer, think about dropping to a smaller chain ring instead of the large one and maybe even go with bigger (teeth count) cog. Don't think of it like if you are riding on the flat or on a climb. Don't compare your gearing out on the road and on the trainer. Trainer has nothing really to do with the terrain you ride. You can set it to mimic "epic" climb or leisurly climb or coasting on the flat. It's just a matter of setting it up for the kind of training you want to do.

As for your HR, everyone has their natural range. Need to start thinking in terms of your resting HR and max. As you get fitter the max/resting ratio will get bigger because your resting rate will drop but your max will stay constant.

my max hasn't changed in years and I'm pretty old. Max is around 203-210 depending on amount of sleep I had the night before, how fresh I feel in the morning and amount of booze I drank the night before. my resting HR is still in the low 50s. That's what my doctor said just last week. What I am trying to say here is that don't compare your HR to others. compare your HR to your base line both at rest and your max HR. Everyone has a different set of numbers.

Another point having a low HR is not necessarily a good thing. I tend to get light headed fairly often and near fainting spell several times a week, thus my visit to the doctor last week.

Hope this helps with your trainer ride.

[salsabike]

I think if you spin faster on the trainer, you will see your heart rate go much higher. A cadence of 76 isn't likely to do that, but 95 or 100 probably would. Easier gears, faster spnning.

[Irulan]

I've been working with a training plan all winter (lwcoaching), and set up my hr zones according to the Friel lactate threshold method.

It takes some work and playing with your cadence and gearing but I have no problem getting to recommended heart rate zones for my intervals etc.

[wildeny]

I think if you spin faster on the trainer, you will see your heart rate go much higher. A cadence of 76 isn't likely to do that, but 95 or 100 probably would. Easier gears, faster spnning.

Actually that average cadence of 76 is about the same I have on the road. I even never go up to nearly 40 km/hr (25 ml/hr) on a flat road (partially because I need to mind the traffic). Therefore, I was surprised to see my HR wasn't as high as riding outdoors.

I also notice one thing: My upper body was more relaxed when riding on a trainer. It's like only my feet were doing the workout. Would it be the reason for having a lower HR?

[wildeny]

I had my 2nd trial with the trainer. I watched the CTS Climbing video, and decided to have a Field Test frist. It said:
"2 x 8 min max efforts
10 min recovery break in between
record: Ave. HR & Ave RPM"

So, I tried but I didn't know what I did was wrong until later.

My warm-up was only to put everything in place and then I started the first effort (Mistake 1)
I used 34/13 and it's not difficult to stay at 90 RPM though I did feel a little bit tired in the end. Ave HR = 141 (Max HR =171), Ave RPM = 96.

I stopped pedaling during the recovery time and then started again when my HR was below 80. About 8 min or so. (Mistake 2)

At my 2nd effort, I immediately noticed that my legs were so tired and I could hardly keep up with 90 RPM. I also felt my heart was pumping fast. I stopped after 2 min (Mistake 3). But a second thought made me continue the test. I switched to 34/14 and just tried, as hard as I could, to keep at 90 RPM. It's so hard for me. I was short of breath and legs were so heavy. My face was very hot (I had fan facing me).

Finally I finished it (despite a very short break at 2:00). Ave HR=142 (Max HR 181), Ave RPM = 88.

The 2nd effort was the hardest I rode and I'd mark it with the perceived exertion of 9.5-10. Why were my HRs so low? My heart was pumping so hard that even after my HR was < 90, I still felt it ached (from 168 -> 96 in 3 min).

My "estimate" Max HR is 187, but I sometimes rode over this value when I ride uphills. My ave HR is 140-150 when riding outdoors. But I never felt so tired as compared with the 2nd effort of the field test. I'm trying to know how to determine which HR zones I should set for later training.

[Irulan]

Now, I'm no expert by a long shot, but here's some information I have found useful:
(my apologies if this is not the kind of info you are looking for)

here's a good article
http://www.trainingpeaks.com/trainin...gintensity.asp

http://beginnertriathlete.com/cms/ar...?articleid=405

Another good article with guidelines, ( I train w/Lynda)
http://lwcoaching.com/?p=138

*don't stop pedaling during recovery. gear way down and spin easy. A good long warm up of at least 20 minutes is very important.

The numbers you give mean nothing without knowing your age, level of conditioning,how hard you are working when you are producing an on road average of 140, etc. If you can't maintain a cadence of 90 rpm very well, perhaps you need to work on your base level of condition. I know when I started working out on a trainer, I really wasn't used to high cadence 90+ workouts. You might need to have a better understanding of how to modify the DVD workouts to suit your fitness level: heart rate is only a partial indicator.

Remember that heart rate is a response to exercise not a measure of exercise.

Here's how I did mine,
Do a long deep warm up prior to the test. Then time trial 20 minutes on a flat out-back course or up a continuous gradual climb. Pace the 20 minutes evenly with a maximal effort. Record average power (if you have power data available), average heart rate and distance covered in the 20 minutes. Finish ride time with long easy cool down. Calculate Heart Rate Zones Average heart rate from test predicts your Lactate Threshold Heart Rate (LTHR).

The Joe Friel zones are calculated as following, the numbers being percentages of your calculated LTHR, not your maximum:
Recovery Zone 1 65-81%
Aerobic Zone 2 82-88%
Tempo zone 3 89-93%
Sub threshold Zone 4 94-100%
Supra Threshold Zone 5a 101-102%
Aerobic Capacity zone 5b 103-105%
Anaerobic Capacity zone 5c 106%+


You WILL feel tired after one of these tests, that is completely normal.

I would highly recommend a structured program for the trainer that will help you build fitness. I use some of Lynda Wallenfells programs at www.lwcoaching.com
If the workout calls for "zone 4" I adjust gearing and/or cadence until I can reach and maintain that zone. If my workout calls for zone 3 maintaining a cadence of 90 for xx minutes,again, I adjust my gearing until I can do it. In my experience, a trainer workout is no less easy or hard, but if you can't get to where you think you should be, just adjust your gears, raise your cadence or do whatever it takes to get there. It took me a few weeks to really be able to understand how to maximize the trainer. I'm on a mountain bike w/slicks, I don't have nearly the gear range you'd have on a road bike on the trainer, and I can still make my goals.

[wildeny]

If you can't maintain a cadence of 90 rpm very well, perhaps you need to work on your base level of condition. I know when I started working out on a trainer, I really wasn't used to high cadence 90+ workouts. You might need to have a better understanding of how to modify the DVD workouts to suit your fitness level: heart rate is only a partial indicator.

I'm not used to 90+ cadence on the flat road. I do at that rate sometimes but not for long. I tend to use higher gear.

Thanks for your input. I will try to test it again in a more proper way.